BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Dan Murphy on June 30, 2014, 11:13:19 PM
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Well we just came from the Decatur In ARG Service facility. I had a cruise control issue and a loose awning that needed to be adjusted. While we were there we had them do a 29 point chassis check since we are leaving for Oregon in a month.
They lubed the chassis and checked all fluids and did a visual inspection of the chassis parts. The tech said it appeared to him that we may be leaking a very small amount of oil into the air dryer system and I should see a Cat dealer to have it checked.
We have gotten 30 miles south of Decatur and pulled into a Walmart for some groceries. Kris was checking the Toad and it was covered with oil and there was oil dripping from the rear of the Beaver. It appears to come from the canister like thing on the lower right side that has a marking saying Webco. I will attempt a picture but may not be able to post the pic.
I have called The Arg service center and they are all gone but will call me in the morning. Coachnet has been alerted and they want to tow but don't know where yet. I am not wild about being towed anywhere.
The dipstick shows a quarter inch of oil and I wonder if it can be driven back to Decatur or fixed right here.
Does anyone have a suggestion??
It does not appear to be leaking any longer after it was shut off but I hesitate to start it up or drive it any farther without knowing what could be wrong.
I do not believe too much in coincidences I wonder what they did to my coach to make it spew out oil!
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I would not crank or drive the coach until you KNOW what the issue is. If the air compressor failed it could pump all the oil out. Can you tell where the leak is coming from?
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Tom
It appears to me much of the oil was lost from the small canister like thing on the lower right side of the engine compartment. It looks like some kind of filter. Could it be the air dryer? It says Webco on part of it.
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Dan, that is probably the air dryer, however a air dryer failure would not pump oil out of,the engine. Your comment earlier said there was 1/4 inch on the stick or was it a 1/4 low on oil?
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Tom,
It would make sense that it is likely coming from the compressor to the receiver drier. There is not much else in that system that has pressureized oil in it.
Later Ed
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I talked to Gerald just awhile ago and he agreed with Mr Buker it is most likely the compressor. We will have Coachnet tow to the nearest Cat shop to check it out.
I sure do hate coincidences. Everything was ok until the service center checked the chassis. Now I have a problem.
Can't go anywhere till morning I hope Coachnet can find me a flat bed tow truck!
Dan
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Had a '94 Patriot with a Cummins 8.3 engine. It started blowing engine oil out of the filter air dryer each time the pressure relief valve opened.
Turns out is was a bad engine air compressor.
Phil
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Dan,
I'd be surprised if they flat bed your coach due to bridge clearance. I had to have 3 tows in MN & Mi last year and in each case it was a rear wheel tow. The tow driver will disconnect the drive shaft and the repairing facility will reconnect it. Be careful to ensure the rear mud flap doesn't drag. I used bugie cords to hold mine up. Also make sure the lift bar from the tow truck does not come in contact with the bottom edge of the front cap. Get the tow driver's cell number and follow him in your toad. That way you can notify him if you see any problems as he is towing it. When you get to the repair facility verify you can over-night in the coach. I was at a Freightliner shop in Monroe MI that forced me to move the coach to the street as they wouldn't allow anyone in the yard overnight. Obviously not an option for you if it's spraying oil.
Good Luck!
Steve
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Dan,
One more thing; If you are down to a 1/4 " of oil showing on the dip stick, (assuming that is well below the "Add" mark), be sure that no one starts the engine until they add some oil.
Steve
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Dan,
Before you call for a tow you may want to talk to the Cat dealer that you plan on using and let them know the symptoms. If they are relatively sure that it is the compressor, it is usually accessible from the rear hatch as long as you have a side radiator in the coach. The compressor may have antifreeze passages for cooling so it may not be something that they will want to change on the road but it may also be quite possible. It would be nice to avoid the risks of having a tow.
There is a big difference between a real Cat service center and a dealership that has a Cat sign out front that is authorized to work on Cat engines. Coachnet will likely be seeking the closest place of service that handles Cat engines. Before I would have my coach towed, if that is necessary, I would see if there is a real Cat service center within reach and see if that option is available. I had a breakdown in Golden CO and was towed to a Denver location that serviced trucks and had a big Cat sign out front. After two days of lack of adequate service and knowledge I called and had to get another tow to a real Cat service center across town. My problem was diagnosed and repaired that same day by the first and second shift teams. A world of difference in knowledge and capability between the two facilities, the real Cat truck dealership being far superior. Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Update to all:
Fleetwood sent a chassis man down to see if the problem was caused by them when they did the inspection. Doug crawled under and all around and he was the guy that did the 29 pt inspection. He said we were about a qt low yesterday and there was a small amount on the shop floor where we had been parked. This is news to me cause I have never seen any sign of leakage before and the oil was ok when I left Mich on Sunday.
Doug put 2 1/2 gallons of oil in so it is a pretty serious leak.
Coachnet was arranging a tow for us and the Jackson Garage called me from Celina Oh. He seemed to think that the garage there could fix my problem yet this week and get me underway. He was a little sketchy about towing it though about 30 miles to his place in Celina.
Meanwhile since he had not called Coachnet back about being able to tow they had arranged another company to come from Ft Wayne and tow the coach back to the Ft Wayne Cat shop for repair. I know they will not even look at it till next week.
Anyone heard of this Jackson Garage in Celina ( they have a website) and any opinions on whether I should try to drive it 30 miles or not??
Dan
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Dan,
Because you really do not know what is wrong with the engine yet it would seem risky to drive it in. What is a bad leak now could possibly travel the distance with some with oil checks and additions along the way or it could suddenly become a catastrophic leak if something that is damaged let go. The issue is without a knowledgeable diagnosis from a Cat trained person in the field you just do not know what is wrong and if you can expect to go the distance.
I would opt for the Cat dealer and then work with the service manager to see if you can get any earlier work done but you are up against the 4th of July holiday. Maybe get a hotel room, unhitch the toad, and do some sight seeing. One opinion....
Later Ed
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Dan, I agree with Ed, it's too risky to drive without knowing the issue. A lot of truck dealerships have mobile service and should be capable of at the very least a diagnosis. They may be able to replace the compressor where you are sitting if that indeed is your issue.
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If you are uncomfortable with the Cat dealer, call Cat directly. Tell them the issue. They can tell you what service according to the serial number. They can be very helpful.
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We had the Beaver towed to Macallister Cat in Ft Wayne In. The tow truck operator was very careful but we still had some minor damage as the generator tail pipe was broken loose and kind of bent the top of th generator box. We discovered before they left and it will be taken care of. Should not be a problem.
I will not hear back from the service manager until next week so we drove home in the toad and we will wait for the verdict on what is wrong. I hope it is not too serious but "Murphy's law" you know !
I cannot say enough good about Coach-Net! They do an awesome job.
Dan
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Update to all about our recent breakdown.
The Cat dealer could not find any leaks or problems with my engine. It seems that the engine oil fill cap and/or dip stick was not tight and the engine spewed out a couple gallons. The technician said the C9 engine is a pressurized system and they have had the same thing happen to some school buses when the drivers did not get the fill cap or dip stick closed properly.
The compressor checked out ok and turbo along with the air dryer system. Good news but 5 hours labor to diagnose.
They did do a valve lash adjustment I asked for and found the valves loose so good to have that done.
They said there was no problem with the cruise control but it still will not disengage with a tap of the brake pedal. You must jam on the pedal to cancel the cruise still.
I think we will try to get BCS to look at this in Oregon next month
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Update to all about our recent breakdown.
The Cat dealer could not find any leaks or problems with my engine. It seems that the engine oil fill cap and/or dip stick was not tight and the engine spewed out a couple gallons. The technician said the C9 engine is a pressurized system and they have had the same thing happen to some school buses when the drivers did not get the fill cap or dip stick closed properly.
The compressor checked out ok and turbo along with the air dryer system. Good news but 5 hours labor to diagnose.
They did do a valve lash adjustment I asked for and found the valves loose so good to have that done.
They said there was no problem with the cruise control but it still will not disengage with a tap of the brake pedal. You must jam on the pedal to cancel the cruise still.
I think we will try to get BCS to look at this in Oregon next month
My cruise won't disengage at all with the brake pedal. I have to turn it off to stop it! I don't use it unless there is a lot of open road around me. Please post when you figure out the cause, it may help.
Thanks
Jerry
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Dan,
Great news,!
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Dan,
See if the brake light switch causes the lights to come on near the top of the pedal stroke. I am not sure if the cruise control uses that switch but they are usually adjustable. Worth a look. If the brake light comes on at the top of the stroke now then you know that the cruise uses something else to sense the braking condition. On mine a light tap on the brake pedal disengages the cruise so it is possible. I have a Smart Wheel system.
Later Ed
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Ed
My neighbor came over yesterday as I was working around the coach. As I was relating my recent problems to him and telling about my cruise control problem he decided he wanted to take a look.
Now he does not have an RV but is mechanically inclined. As he was poking around under the dash around the brake pedals he found that the cable that was used in the automatic pedal assembly and a couple of speaker wires were jammed behind the brake pedal not allowing the pedals to move forward or back as designed and when we freed these wires we were also able to make an adjustment to the brake pedal so that the cruise control would cancel very easily. The automatic pedals however still don't work.
The cable was damaged and the automatic pedal assembly would not work but we were able to move each pedal to a better position by turning the motors manually. I suspect the entire assembly will need to be removed to replace the motors which appears to be burnt out.
But now I am once again able to cancel the cruise contriol with the brake pedal.
The Monaco/Fleetwood service facility said I need a part in the generator compartment and the Caterpillar mechanic said that according to his laptop the cruise control was functioning perfect even though you had to really jam on the brakes to get it to cancel.
Then I get my neighbor who is a backyard mechanic to fix the issue! I really need to get up to speed and learn to do some of these things myself because I am losing all confidence in the RV service world!!
We have Been to Camping World in Greenwood In. Lazy Days in Fl. And the ARG service in Decatur,In and also to the largest Cat dealer in Indiana and it has been a real mixed bag of nuts for us! Expensive too!!
Dan
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Dan,
The good news in all this is that you do not seem to have an engine problem and you are learning the ropes. As far as automatic pedals I do not have that feature and cannot imagine if it did not work that I would miss that one given for the last 50 years we have been adjusting the seat :-) I would probably not fix that one given you got it where you would like it.
The Cat dealer should have caught that pedal issue by checking out the pedal assembly but he was checking the function of the ECU and using electronic diagnostics. Cat really looks at fixing "their stuff" and not so much at fixing RV problems but a good tech should have been in there.
If you own your coach for awhile and get the bugs out of it over a year or two I think you can have some good periods of smooth sailing. Try and find a good truck shop with a great reputation (I like family owned if you can find it) that works on RVs near you and go to them and explain a problem that you are having. If it is something they have done before they will have knowledge and if not then you might look elsewhere. It is hard to find talent around the country given these are pretty much custom made vehicles with lots of systems. BCS is probably the best place for resolving an issue but we all don't live in OR. Seems like you are getting there....sounds like your neighbor needs a job from time to time :-)
Later Ed
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Ed
We will be making a list for BCS as we will be in Oregon for at least a month in August.i hope to visit the facility and maybe learn more about my Beaver.
Yeah my neighbor is a Cracker Jack on fixing things. I found out yesterday he has an EE degree and a degree in industrial Tech. He works a problem kinda backwards and seems to be able to fix a lot of things. He is on disability from a serious motorcycle accident but able to get around about as well as this old guy does. Which is to say a little slow so we work at the same pace and take a lot of breaks! LOL
Thanks for responding and the encouraging words. I was kinda down after returning from the Cat dealer and still having problems but things are looking up today and I hope we have clear sailing to the west coast.
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congratulations on fixing the big issues!!
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Dan, Did you see any oil coming out of the vent tube? It is in the same area as you were describing, the engine may have been over filled. Some dipsticks are not accurate and overfilling the engine can happen. This in turn could cause oil to come out of the vent tube. I recall there are some posts about installing a can on the end of the vent hose to catch the oil...
Anyone recall this issue in another post.
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Sean I believe the oil came out of the fill cap and dip stick tube that a mechanic failed to secure properly. After the Cat dealer spent 5 hrs checking everything else ie; turbo,compressor,oil dryer,etc.the conclusion was the oil escaped under engine pressure from a loose dip stick or fill cap.
Lesson learned is to check and recheck the engine compartment after any work is done or the Beaver is in the shop.expensive lesson for sure!
Dan
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Dan that is true, but do you know about the vent hose I am talking about... Anyoneelse?