BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Jerald Cate on July 26, 2014, 11:19:15 PM
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Does anyone know where the AC service ports might be on a 2003 Patriot Lexington? I've looked in the obvious places (compressor, front cap around the receiver/dryer and condenser). I need to take my coach in for service and I'd like to be able to tell them where the ports are instead of paying shop time for them to locate the ports.
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Bruce,
I am not sure about the 2003 Patriot Thunder, but most of the 2003 Marquis coaches had the charging ports inside the front cap, above the generator, and to the driver's side of center. The ports on your Thunder will probably be in the same location.
Gerald
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Gerald,
I've looked in that area but I may be overlooking them, I'll keep looking. If they are up there how on earth do you access them for servicing? Seems to me it would have been a lot simpler to install ports at the compressor it's right there in your face in the engine compartment. Are there aftermarket adapters to move the ports to the compressor?
Bruce
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Bruce,
There should be a set at the compressor in the engine compartment also.
Steve
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Bruce,
Yes, a set of service ports can be added at the compressor by any qualified A/C service shop, but the only coaches in the 2000 to 2003 era that had factory installed service ports at the compressor were the California 40 foot models. All of the other Marquis and Patriot coaches in that era that have charging ports at the compressor were aftermarket installations.
Gerald
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Gerald,
I got my camera far enough above the generator to take a picture and I did find the low side (blue cap) port but I didn't find the high side yet. I'm sure in that maze of stuff the high side port is in there somewhere but it's going to take someone more limber and less fluffy than me to get up there and find it. I believe the first thing I'm going to ask the shop is can they install service ports at the compressor, if not, I'll take it somewhere else for that work. The engineer that designed that installation obviously never had his hands on a wrench.
Bruce
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Bruce,
If you see the low side service port, the high side service port will be very close to the same area.
Gerald
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What refrigerant is used in 02? Can the automotive recharge canisters be used to top off the system or are they just too small?
Keith
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Keith,
Assume it is 134, same as autos. My 2001 & 2001 both use it.
Steve
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Keith,
Your 2002 Marquis came with R 134A refrigerant, and yes the 12 ounce cans at Walmart or your local auto supply will work very well to top off the system. If you do not have a bad leak it will usually only take one can or two at the most.
Gerald
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OK
Thanks Steve and Gerald.
Keith
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I bought the most expensive can they had at Autozone because it came with a nice gauge and longer hose that helps reach where Beaver put the service port. It was on sale for about $45. The expensive can came with a link to a YouTube for operator training. In the training it shows how to set the gauge and squeeze the trigger when the compressor is running. The compressor is on the engine and Beaver engineering called for the fill port to be on the front in a nearly hidden, hard to reach location.
The YouTube makes it pretty simple. You only need one gauge. You don't need the full set of two gauges and complicated hose set like Marty has. I borrowed it just in case, but never found out how to to hook it up. With the Autozone can and gauge, you only have one hose and the fitting only fits the right connection.
The first time I tried it, I ignored the part about the compressor running because I was at the front and could not see the back. It helped cool the dash air a little, but it was not great. In fact, I had myself convinced I needed "professional" service.
At Hilton Head, I asked Gerald how to find quality "professional" service where they understood motorhome A/C. His advice was to buy the cheapest can they had at Wal-Mart and service it myself. He also suggested that it would not be unusual if I needed to do it about once a year on a ten year old system.
I bought the bottom shelf can at Wal-Mart for about $12. At Dillard, Keith Cooper stood by the compressor and kept me informed as to when the compressor cycled on so that I knew when to squeeze the trigger. Cell phones work better than shouting over the noise of the engine.
The A/C has been working well ever since Dillard, including the drive north on I-5 yesterday in 85 degree heat.
If your service port is in the front, get help!
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Bill,
I'd like to service it myself but knee surgery last week and even after losing 50 lbs I'm still to fluffy to stand up in the front cap to hookup a hose. Is there some other way to get at the ports I haven't discovered?
I got a chuckle about you 85 degree heat that's ideal weather for us. Fortunately we haven't been over 100 yet but have flirted with it several times this year. As soon as my knee heals we're going to get out of town before it does get hot.
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Bill,
I'd like to service it myself but knee surgery last week and even after losing 50 lbs I'm still to fluffy to stand up in the front cap to hookup a hose. Is there some other way to get at the ports I haven't discovered?
I don't know your coach, but on mine there is access if I run the generator out. I can't see it real well, but I can feel where it is. With the longer hose on the kit I bought I can reach in and connect it.
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Bill,
That's not an option for me, I have maybe 3" clearance above the generator with it run out. To top that there's about a 3" cross-member right behind the front cap and above the generator. Guess I'm going on a diet.
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Fair warning. I just finished this job and made several trips to get more refrigerant. I let it run while going to the store and when I returned each time the pressure had climbed. If I had more on hand I would hve put it in right away instead of waiting 15 minutes or so and could easily have over pressured it.
I used the fill ports back by the compressor and installed two large cans or about 42 oz. I guess t takes awhile for the fluid to travel all the way forward and then back to read on the guage.
Keith
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Keith,
That seems like a lot of added R134A. When it has been sitting awhile and the high side and low side pressure have equalized (2 hours is more than enough) and everything is sitting at ambient and the engine and system has not been run for awhile. Get an ambient outside measurement and if your gauge has an accurate pressure scale on it read the static pressure. This is probably the most accurate way to gauge your charge level. Compare your reading to this chart for the ambient that you have. It should be in the ball park.
http://www.pacificseabreeze.com/tech-library/heat-and-insulation/R134a-PT-Chart.htm
This chart gives you high side and low side pressure for a given ambient while charging but there are assumptions about air flow over the condenser. The condenser fans and inside dash fans need to be on high and full cold while you charge and measure pressure.
http://www.mastercool.com/media/89660-INST_web.pdf
Later Ed
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Keith,
I agree with Ed in that it sounds like you may have overcharged the system a little unless the system was completely empty. If the system was completely empty, you probably have at leak that will need to be repaired. With charging ports at the compressor, you will have low-side readings a little lower than normal because of the long pull from the front of the coach. Therefore, when charging a system with service ports at the compressor, you should be using a full gauge system to properly evaluate the charge state. A partially restricted expansion valve will also give you a low reading for the low-side.
Gerald
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No longer on my own RV pad. Will try to get it looked at ina shop. System was getting cold after I filled it but we had to settle for cool today. I am thinking leak. While filling the low pressure tube seemed to have vapor curling off of it in the bend.
Thanks to all
Keith
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I'm haven't been able to schedule service on my dash AC yet since we are traveling, but through further search online I've found that if the condenser fan isn't running it will cause high pressure readings that I'm experiencing. I checked today and sure enough my condenser fan is not running and my condenser fan relay isn't getting a ground to energize. If I jumper the ground side of the relay to ground the fan comes on and my AC appears to be cooling. I don't have a schematic but I'm assuming the ground comes from the AC switch on the dash, does anyone know if that is correct? Also does anyone have a schematic of the dash AC circuitry they could share?
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I submitted the electrical diagrams to be put in the coach assist area of member services but I don't see them. I can email them to you I think. It's big and we had an issue with that before. I'll try if you want. Say the word (write).
Jerry
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I submitted the electrical diagrams to be put in the coach assist area of member services but I don't see them. I can email them to you I think. It's big and we had an issue with that before. I'll try if you want. Say the word (write).
Jerry
Just remembered I put it in dropbox. Try this link.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8aukdy67t2as7d/Scan%20Jul%208%2C%202014%2C%2017.15.pdf?dl=0
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Thanks for the reply Jerry. Those are the same drawings I have and they are either incomplete or I'm just missing something. There should be something switching in a ground to the condenser relay (K3), it has a wire going to terminal TB1-10 but I cannot find any drawing that has a wire on terminal TB1-10. Another dash AC thread running on the forum mentioned pressure switches and a temperature control module, of course none of those components show up on the drawings either. I assume the temperature control module is part of the dash AC switch panel, anyone know where I might locate the pressure switches?