BAC Forum
General Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: Karl Welhart on August 26, 2014, 06:11:46 PM
-
This may seem strange to some, but need help and advice on which system to activate on our new coach. It comes with "in-motion" w/DirecTV receivers and it is also prewired for Wineguard. The best I can tell at this point, that means I can use DirecTV in non-HD mode only or add a Wineguard antenna w/receivers for HD reception.
In 35 years of motorhomeing, I have never had satellite TV.... so pardon my ignorance on this subject Therefore, any suggestions on the best system is appreciated. BTW, I have cable at home and would consider changing to satellite if there is an advantage. It appears that if you combine the home and mobile systems together it is a very cost effective alternative to cable at home and separate mobile service in the coach.
Karl
-
Karl.
We use Dish at home and in the coach and move the receiver. They also have a by the month plan where you can turn it off I believe if you did not want to change your home arrangement. I think Dish has an advantage over Direct in the HD reception department. If you can have any option and were going for a roof top system the Winegard SK 1000 Travler would be a great choice. It handles multiple receivers and provides HD coverage, it is basically the same antenna as used on a home installation with a mobile automated mount. The dish/LNB design used in this system is a well proven design that holds signal except in the worst downpours. One persons two cents....
Later Ed
-
Karl,
I had cable at the house and Direct TV in the coach for awhile. Extra expense, even when I had Direct TV turn off service when not traveling. I switched to Direct TV completely and simply move one of my receivers from the house to the coach when traveling. However with both my Winegard and KVH domes the receiver had to be a non-SWM (single wire) version. Be sure to verify your RV dish technology and make sure your the receiver you use has the same capability. Direct TV has not given me any hassle on this. I would suspect you could do the same with DISH, but not sure. Only downside I ran into was having to have a DTV receiver for each set in the house if we wanted to watch different programs on each set. This increase cost (~$5-6) per receiver /month but was offset by saving of not having both cable and satellite bills. I think Direct TV has a wireless (GENI??) system now that eliminates the need for multiple receivers.
Steve
-
We have dish at home and now in the motorhome, the cost per month is 7.00 per month but prorated if you only use part of the month. No charge to turn it off and on and you can call when you get somewhere for their local channels. The package is the same as we have at the house. Hole this helps.
Pam
-
Like Karl, I've never had satellite, nor even cable at home, though our coach came with a Kingdome and DirecTV receiver and card. I always figured that someday I'd subscribe and simply run a cable from an outside bay to the house TV coax box 20 feet from the coach and feed TVs inside when we are home. It likely won't work that simply, even though our TV's are all interconnected in the house; the receiver remote won't likely reach from family room to coach, but if at all plausible it would save at least $60/year. Like Steve, I always presumed I may have to just bring the receiver inside the house. As long as the Kingdome coaxes into the house feeds, I shouldn't even need a dish put on the house.
Like others note, reviews I've seen indicate DISH is more into HD right now if HD is important to you and your TVs can display it well. One used to read a lot of customer service complaints about one or the other big U.S. satellite services. Haven't heard so much lately on that, but others here may have opinions on the most recent experiences.
Joel
-
Karl,
I was a long time DirecTV customer. I signed up when it was brand new and I was mad at my cable company. It was easy to use both at home and in the motorhome. Gradually it became complex. The addition of local channels, more channels, DVRs and HD required more satellites and more complex receiving systems. Politics got involved too. The FCC was pressured by sports franchises, advertisers and stations to write rules that help us watch what they think we are supposed to watch. For example, if I was in Seattle during a blacked out Seahawks game, DirecTV had to be sure I couldn't watch it.
As the systems and FCC rules evolved, the "Terms of Service" agreements grew in detail and length. What you could, should or be allowed to do changed. At one point, a DirecTV representative told me I had to divide my account in two. One would be for the condo and one would be for the motorhome. And, yes, I would pay double.
About a year ago, the receiver in the motorhome died from being 9 years old. I was in Arizona. My "service address" on file was our condo near Seattle. The DirecTV representative refused to ship a receiver to Arizona. He was only allowed to provide service to the "service address".
Realizing that my TV watching has declined, I that I had reliably sent $15,000 to DirecTV over the years and (from my point of view) the service level had gone to hell, I quit. (Karl, you can tell I'm still mad at them!)
As near as I can tell, Dish has some more RV friendly "terms of service" now. What ever you do, read the fine print and make sure you know how you can tune the shows you want, especially the major networks. Also be sure that the terms of service specially allow you to install systems in both the house and RV.
-
Direct TV 1997 no HD or Local in RV. Pay $4.95 per month for the extra receiver. Have none of Bill Sprague's grief with Direct TV, knock on wood.
-
Karl, When or if you call dish you have to specifically ask for the RV service representative because no one else at dish will have a clue. The first time I called them they told me to call camping world where I bought it so I did and they told me who to ask for. It is a separate department within dish. We bought the receiver at camping world and own it so there are no extra receiver charges just the programming. Pam
-
Again, thanks to all for the great tips. I am getting somewhere with DirecTV but still do not understand the Dish system relative to MH applications. Do you have to have the home account and then piggyback on that for the MH?
Karl
-
I have Dish - two receivers in my residence and one receiver in my coach. They are all on the same account. As far as I know, Dish has no idea where I am or which receivers I am using. When I am home I use the two receivers in the home. When I am on the road in my coach I use the one receiver in my coach. If I change to new local channels while traveling, then Dish will know where I am located at that moment. The two home receivers are also changed but since no one is there using the home receivers it is mute. Last Winter while traveling in the SouthWest USA, I had a friend living in my home for five months. He watched TV using one receiver in the family room. He reported the family room's receiver would not show the Portland local channels - and that was because I had the locals changed corresponding to my travelling for my viewing while in the SouthWest. At home all channels other than the Portland locals operated as usual.
All my receivers are DVRs and will receive two channels simultaneously. In the coach I can in real time watch one channel in the front room and a different channel in the bedroom. Or I can watch different recordings in the front room versus the bedroom. For example, usually first thing in the mornings I am watching Squawk Box in the front room while she is watching HGTV in the bedroom.
-
David,
Thanks very much for the information. Did you set up the account with separate receivers in your home and MH or are they all home? They must know you are mobile because of the changes in local programming. Can you share the monthly cost and do you own the receivers or are they included in the monthly charges?
Karl
-
Originally, I set up the account for my home. I later added the third receiver for my Bluebird Wanderlodge. Now that third receiver is in the Marquis. I own none of the equipment. It is all on the monthly lease. I have the Top 250 Gold package and the Golf channel, but do not have any movie packages. My monthly cost is about $130. I know I could get TV cheaper, but I am a stock trader and almost every morning I am watching the financial and news channels. I also watch and play a lot of golf. I don't knit. I don't read books. I watch TV, play golf, smoke cigars while on the course, and look after my investments and, as my son puts it, my expensive toys. lolol Life is about decisions and discriminating among our various environmental inputs.
-
Regarding the Dish service, I recently upgraded my service at home to the Hopper receiver and got another one for the MH by calling it a guesthouse. Since it was parked along side the house it was easy to justify.
I did have to jump through a few verbal hoops with the CS rep when I told them the guesthouse had it's own dish and had no cable connection to the main house which is why I had to have a separate receiver and could not treat it as an extension for the central receiver. Also, in order to use the Hopper the dish has to be a full size unit or it own't work. My Winguard traveler fit the bill so no problem there.
One you clear the CS issue they send out a contract company to do the install and they could care less that it's in a MH as long as the dish is correct. While they we doing the install I also ordered a Joey for the bedroom.
All this is on one account and I think is an extra $10,00/mo for the receiver and Joey. FYI, it works great and I love being able to record 3 programs at a time.
-
If you look back through the forum over the last year there was a long discussion on the pros and cons of dish vs directv in MHs. As i recall, it was easy to get an extra receiver added to your home and for you to move it to the MH yourself with dish (that is what I do). But it seems to me the discussion said it was hard to do the same thing with directv. At least they would not let you if you told them. I may not be remembering properly so look for that thread.
-
I just got off from chatting with a Dish Customer Service Representative. I can get ONE Hopper and multiple Joeys for the house with no problem. One Hopper for the first TV and additional Joeys for additional TVs - an additional Joey for each additional TV, assuming the additional TVs are in different rooms, I suspect.
The potential problem came when I asked for a SECOND Hopper and a Joey for the coach. The CS Rep said I must talk to their RV Department. I suspect their modern configuration - that being ONE Hopper with multiple Joeys - is designed to prevent multiple residences from operating on ONE account. She hesitated when I asked for TWO Hoppers and TWO Joeys - one of each in the house and coach.
Bottom line: If I get TWO Hoppers and TWO Joeys, then the cost would be just over $140 per month on my selection of subscription.
As Mr. Simonis pointed out, it appears I must contact the RV Department to become authorized to get that SECOND Hopper and Joey for the coach put onto my one house account. But that should not be a problem because I already have a THIRD receiver in my coach on my one home account. All I am doing is upgrading from older receivers to their new Hopper/Joey system.
-
I just got off from chatting with a Dish Customer Service Representative. I can get ONE Hopper and multiple Joeys for the house with no problem. One Hopper for the first TV and additional Joeys for additional TVs - an additional Joey for each additional TV, assuming the additional TVs are in different rooms, I suspect.
The potential problem came when I asked for a SECOND Hopper and a Joey for the coach. The CS Rep said I must talk to their RV Department. I suspect their modern configuration - that being ONE Hopper with multiple Joeys - is designed to prevent multiple residences from operating on ONE account. She hesitated when I asked for TWO Hoppers and TWO Joeys - one of each in the house and coach.
Bottom line: If I get TWO Hoppers and TWO Joeys, then the cost would be just over $140 per month on my selection of subscription.
As Mr. Simonis pointed out, it appears I must contact the RV Department to become authorized to get that SECOND Hopper and Joey for the coach put onto my one house account. But that should not be a problem because I already have a THIRD receiver in my coach on my one home account. All I am doing is upgrading from older receivers to their new Hopper/Joey system.
I have a good friend who is a Dish retailer and when I talked to him about upgrading my home to the hopper, he said I had to discontinue using my other existing receivers (some of which I own, including the one in the MH) and the only non-hopper/joey could be the 211 made for MHs. Needless to say, I declined. I had forgotten about that when I replied above. So, since new users would have to get the hopper/joey system, I'm not sure how Dish would work for them if trying to piggyback on their home system.
-
We have Dish Network and am satisfied. I have a 722 DVR that was moved from a house we used to own. Dish will not allow any of their equipment with a hard drive to be used in a MH. I am under the radar I guess because I change my locals when we travel. I tried to upgrade to a Hopper and learned about the hard drive policy. They want you to use 2 model 211 receivers. We have a Winegard 1000 roof mount dish that folds out. I would not recommend it as it is very expensive to repair. It cost $800.00 + labor for repair last year. I will check my paper work and post a recommendation for your consideration.
-
We have Dish Network and am satisfied. I have a 722 DVR that was moved from a house we used to own. Dish will not allow any of their equipment with a hard drive to be used in a MH. I am under the radar I guess because I change my locals when we travel. I tried to upgrade to a Hopper and learned about the hard drive policy. They want you to use 2 model 211 receivers. We have a Winegard 1000 roof mount dish that folds out. I would not recommend it as it is very expensive to repair. It cost $800.00 + labor for repair last year. I will check my paper work and post a recommendation for your consideration.
Doug, I was unaware of the hard drive policy when I first signed up for Dish and they first uninstalled a 722 with hard drive in my travel trailer several years ago. In fact the installer came to the RV park in Lebanon, OR to do the install and hook up my than Winguard CarryOut portable antennae. For several years I moved the receiver between home and RV until last year when I ungraded the house to a Hopper and also had one installed in the MH. Now granted when I did the upgrade I went through a normal CS rep not a specialized RV person and never specifically said it was going into an RV (oversight on my part). By this time I had also purchased the Beaver and after a couple of years with the portable dish had BCS install the Traveler so when it cam time for the Hopper upgrade I had the correct antenna and all was fine.
-
I'm not sure what you can talk the dish folks into these days but we would be lost without a DVR in the RV. We skip all the commercials and are not tied to being available when a show that we like is on. We use a 722 from home and do not bother with locals from the satellite when traveling.
There should be no issue with running a unit with a hard drive in it as long as you always remember to remove power from it before you start up the motorhome. If you wire it to an outlet that never sees the inverter that helps, but the use of the generator while on the road would be an issue. I made a little panel with some lights on it and some switches where I can shut off all power to both the dish and the 722 receiver for traveling. Unplugging would do the same but lacks a warning light. I have been using the 722 for 4 years now without issues.
If you have a TV that Monaco had installed an ignition interlock relay, to disable it while driving, the use of that same outlet as a power source for your DVR would be ideal if you are planning an installation.
Later Ed
-
We have DirecTV at home. We never record anything, so we just have 3 regular receivers. One for the family room, one for my office, and one for the bedroom. The "bedroom" receiver is mounted permanently in the coach. We never watch TV in bed at home, or while traveling. The third receiver is $6.00 per month. We have a Winegard Trav'ler on the roof of the coach.
In the past, when we've traveled, we could call and temporarily change our service address, and we got local channels at our location. In the past couple of years, Direct has disallowed this, telling us we need a separate RV account with DNS service. I can watch local news on our iPad, and if we need local channels (rarely, unless the Stanley Cup is on NBC instead of NBC Sports Network) we just crank up the OTA antenna.
Stan
-
If I were not already tied into DirectTV I would probably choose Dish, because DTV won't let you suspend service when you are not using your rig. And if you discontinue service when not using the rig, they make you return the receivers even if you paid for them. They are the only one you can get NFL Sunday ticket with also.
-
I'm not sure what you can talk the dish folks into these days but we would be lost without a DVR in the RV. We skip all the commercials and are not tied to being available when a show that we like is on. We use a 722 from home and do not bother with locals from the satellite when traveling.
There should be no issue with running a unit with a hard drive in it as long as you always remember to remove power from it before you start up the motorhome. If you wire it to an outlet that never sees the inverter that helps, but the use of the generator while on the road would be an issue. I made a little panel with some lights on it and some switches where I can shut off all power to both the dish and the 722 receiver for traveling. Unplugging would do the same but lacks a warning light. I have been using the 722 for 4 years now without issues.
If you have a TV that Monaco had installed an ignition interlock relay, to disable it while driving, the use of that same outlet as a power source for your DVR would be ideal if you are planning an installation.
Later Ed
We don't power down the DVR nor do we turn off our computers when we travel. Modern hard drives are far more resistant to vibration than they once were. Otherwise laptops wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are.
-
I would not recommend it as it is very expensive to repair. It cost $800.00 + labor for repair last year. I will check my paper work and post a recommendation for your consideration.
As far as I'm aware, the Trav'ler is the only fully automatic dish that can lock onto all the satellites needed for either DirecTV HD or Dish HD. If you want to operate a DVR and be able to record one or more channels while watching another there is no substitute for the Trav'ler. Sure, it's not cheap to repair but it's a complex system that sits out in the open and bounces around on the roof when you travel. The fact that it can work under those conditions is impressive IMO. Since there's no alternative that meets our needs we'll live with its shortcomings.
-
Joel,
There are very small hard drives with very little mass to the read write head that are used in the portable computer application. IBM actually pioneered the miniature hard drive for portable applications and reducing the size and mass of the head was one of the hard drive crash prevention strategies. They heads also park themselves, go to sleep, when not called upon for a period of time even when the computer is operational. These hard drives were designed for mobile applications and are quite resilient to moderate vibration and bumps.
The hard drive units found in satellite DVRs like the 722 are high capacity hard drives like those used in desk tops. It spins 24 hours a day even when your unit is in the off mode. It records in off mode and is always available. These type drives are more resilient to bumps and any impacts then they used to be but they are still not very robust given the application that they were intended for. You may remain lucky but given we hit bumps that have dislodged shower doors I still think this is quite risky when there is really no reason to have it on while driving Joel.
Later Ed
-
Joel,
The RF Mogul system (developed by the original owners of MotoSAT) has all of the same capabilities that the Trav'ler has, but it has serviceable parts if a problem occurs. With the Trav'ler, you have to replace the entire base for the dish if anything in it fails. So with the RF Mogul system if the small electric motor fails that controls dish elevation, you just buy a new motor, but with the Trav'ler you have to replace the entire base.
Gerald
-
Gerald:
I stand corrected; I had overlooked that unit partly because I've never given it serious consideration. Even though the developers have good credentials I am reluctant to buy expensive hardware from small companies that might not be there when I need service support. At least Winegard is a key part of the the RV TV world and will be there when I eventually need to repair or replace my Trav'ler. Maybe in another 5-10 years you'd be able to make that statement about RF Mogul, but not at present.
Joel
-
Joel,
For what it is worth this an article on the damage forces and types of bumps that the type of hard drives found in DVRs are capable of surviving. The forces that cause damage are about 7 times higher in the off state. There is one well insulated drive meant for hard use but if you look at the damage forces table it only helps in the off state.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a-sturdy-companion,758-2.html
These are the compatible drives used in the 722, the Seagate is the most likely one that was installed.
Hitachi HCS725050VLA380
ST3500830SCE
WDC WD5000AAJS-57
This is the spec sheet for the Seagate which includes the on and off vibration specs.
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_db35_7200_3.pdf
You are the physics wizard Joel, those vibration specs will mean more to you than me. All I know is I rarely got away scot-free when thumping one of my desktop drives over the years. I have drawers that jump out onto the floor at times and I know my 722DVR has levitated in the air momentarily before doing a landing on the shelf in my rear closet :-)
Later Ed
-
Joel,
For what it is worth this an article on the damage forces and types of bumps that the type of hard drives found in DVRs are capable of surviving. The forces that cause damage are about 7 times higher in the off state. There is one well insulated drive meant for hard use but if you look at the damage forces table it only helps in the off state.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a-sturdy-companion,758-2.html
These are the compatible drives used in the 722, the Seagate is the most likely one that was installed.
Hitachi HCS725050VLA380
ST3500830SCE
WDC WD5000AAJS-57
This is the spec sheet for the Seagate which includes the on and off vibration specs.
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_db35_7200_3.pdf
You are the physics wizard Joel, those vibration specs will mean more to you than me. All I know is I rarely got away scot-free when thumping one of my desktop drives over the years. I have drawers that jump out onto the floor at times and I know my 722DVR has levitated in the air momentarily before doing a landing on the shelf in my rear closet :-)
Later Ed
Actually Ed, you've provided all the information needed to explain why my hard drives aren't particularly disturbed by traveling in the MH even when they are running. The article you cited states that the rated "operating" shock for most HDDs is in the 50-60G range. That's the kind of shock you get from something moving at ~0.5 m/s stopping in a hundredth of a second, like dropping a object from a height of a couple of inches onto a slab of concrete. No question that won't do your HDD any good.
But high impact forces only occur when a moving object stops suddenly. The reason the MH situation isn't nearly so bad is that everything in the MH is moving at the same speeds both sideways and up/down. So it is difficult for objects to sustain impact forces of the kind necessary to do harm. There's a huge difference between the nearly instantaneous stopping that occurs when an object falls on concrete compared to the impacts transmitted through the wheels to the inside of the vehicle.
If the MH's wheel hits a pothole the vehicle shudders but everything in the vehicle is moving together. The jolt the DVR feels is the same jolt felt by the shelf it is laying on, for the most part the objects move together. Unless an object literally goes flying and then falls back onto its shelf the impacts felt will be more in line with roller coaster forces (~5Gs) rather than impact forces. If an object does lift slightly off its shelf, the fact that it has rubber feet and probably is sitting on a carpeted shelf helps reduce any shock it may receive. Even if your entire MH goes airborne, everything in it is moving at exactly the same speed, therefore virtually no impact forces occur when the wheels make contact with the ground.
We all get jarred by the bumps our coaches go over, but the actual impact levels aren't all that high because they do ride on inflated tires and have pneumatic suspension. We see cabinets fly open, but much of that comes from distortion of the cabinet frame and latch as the vehicle flexes slightly on impact.
The lesson from this is put your DVR (or other sensitive stuff) on something that will cushion it (not something that will make it bounce)--thereby stretching out the time of any collision that occurs if the object is jostled; a piece of carpet would be fine. Better still, put a bungee cord over it to hold it on the cushioning material so it has to remain still on its shelf and can't possibly go airborne.
We've had a DVR in the MH for 4 years without issue and I've never actually considered the physics of it until now. Thanks for making me think it through; now I'm less concerned than I was previously. If someone at Dish has made a rule about DVRs in MHs they clearly don't know the physics of the situation.
Joel
-
Joel,
Being conservative in nature I will probably still power down but it is good to know that as senility sets in and I forget the switch I will probably be OK. My unit sits on a hard surface so that the cooling vents are not blocked, yet another hazard heat and carpet dust....
Later Ed
-
Joel, I just wanted to pipe in and say that I have had several dealing with RF Mogul and found them very customer oriented, professional and knowledgeable. They have years of experience with RV antenna and support their product well. They had a booth at the Perry GA FMCA rally. I would highly recommend them to anyone looking at a new system or needing service on an old Moto Sat system.
-
Joel, I just wanted to pipe in and say that I have had several dealing with RF Mogul and found them very customer oriented, professional and knowledgeable. They have years of experience with RV antenna and support their product well. They had a booth at the Perry GA FMCA rally. I would highly recommend them to anyone looking at a new system or needing service on an old Moto Sat system.
Norm:
I don't doubt that the folks at RF Mogul are great, but I still wouldn't pay >$1000 for a complex product produced by a company that has been in business for ~a year in an industry as volatile as the RV one. Not when there's a proven product available made and backed by a major company. JMO
Joel
-
Joel,
I appreciate you feelings about not wanting to do business with a company that you perceive as a start-up. RF Mogul is a little over three years old as a company, and even though the owner, managers, and engineers are basically the MotoSAT company who developed the first mobile internet dish for RVs and the first HD dish for an RV, and dominated the open face RV dish market that Winegard was not even in, the RF Mogul company is relatively new.
Buying any durable item runs the a risk for future support. Just because a company is old, that is not a guarantee that they will be there or still manufacture and support the item. Remember Oldsmobile and Pontiac. They were not deemed profitable and were dropped. I buy the best quality product from someone that I trust.
Gerald
-
Gerald:
I think the issue really depends on whether or not one considers the product a commodity that simply gets replaced when it breaks or a capital improvement that one would repair rather than replace. One participant in the thread was concerned that repair of his Trav'ler was a considerable expense and then we got into a discussion of the relative cost of repair parts for the Winegard and the RF Mogul. If I don't expect to repair an item the availability of repair parts is of less concern.
It's been many years since I last worried about repairing electronic devices rather than replacing them. The rapid evolution of electronic devices of all sorts has been such that the new product will no doubt cost less and provide improved performance compared to the one it is replacing. Furthermore, most electronic components cannot be repaired in a cost effective manner. When I owned an electronics online store a few years ago, large screen TVs damaged in shipment were of value only for salvage parts since there was no way to repair and offer them for sale at a competitive price. In that respect the Trav'ler is no different.
My own Trav'ler is in its fourth year of daily service. Since we travel a fair amount it is deployed and stowed many times a year. If it were to fail I seriously doubt if I would spend $800 plus labor to replace just the base of the unit when the entire system can be purchased new from Amazon for $1488. It will probably cost more in labor to detach the base and replace it than it will to replace the entire assembly. If I stick with Winegard the control cable is probably still the same which would greatly simplify inside installation. I might consider the RF Mogul, but unless it was pin-compatible with the Winegard it wouldn't be worth the extra installation effort without even considering whether the company would be there to honor its warranties.
Lastly, it's my understanding that the folks that run RF Mogul closed MotoSat and walked away from it in order to form their new company. From what I read on various forums, it appeared that customers with MotoSat equipment were somewhat hung out to dry. I don't see that as a track record that gives me a good feeling about becoming a customer of theirs. As you noted the amount of time a company is in business is not a guarantee of its lasting power, but how it treats is customers is something that is a function of the people who run it and not the company. People who walk away from their customers rather than creating a long term plan for servicing them aren't high on my list.
Jowl
-
A different take on Dish vs Direct...
If you plan to spend time outside the US such as Canada or Mexico I would advise you to look into getting a "Shaw" system from Canada...
Where we winter far south in Mexico all the Canadians use Shaw and get perfect reception both in the US and Mexico...
My Dish system does not work down here even though I can pick up good signals from all three satalites... >:(
-
Shaw system:
Here is what I have been told by Shaw, (and a tech in CA):
Available if you have a BC, Alberta or some eastern provinces address for service.
The footprint of the original Shaw satellites, Anik I, Anik II covers all of the lower 48 US, bits of Mexico, most centers of population in Canada,.
The Anik I and II will not be there forever, as the FCC rules have changed since they were launched and Shaw has launched a newer, FCC compliant satellite that doesn't work in the lower 48 or Mexico. Any new installation will be given access to the newer satellite, not the older ones. If you have issues with your service and call Shaw for help, they are not allowed to help you if they know you are out of the allowed service area (FCC rules).
As i now own a site, so don't point my dish at their satellites from a multiplicity of different locations, I have tried the local cable Co this year, Time Warner, and for $10 per month on top of my internet account, I get more TV than enough. Shaw went up this year to $40 for a basic package.