BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: William Brosam on September 03, 2014, 03:47:53 AM
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So I have just changed my chassis batteries, changed the house batteries 2 months ago and I've been having inverter issues, it will only last 1-2 hours before draining the batteries.
Put in new chassis batteries and I can see it's better but not perfect. I think one of the major power wires coming from the coach is connected to the chassis batteries and not the house batteries, like they are supposed to be.
Can someone post some photos of your battery bay?
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Not all coaches are wired the same, but I've posted my battery bay before for folks:
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1998 Patriot 4 6v house batteries and 2 12v chassis batteries. Hope this helps.
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William,
There are a few issues in your original post that need clarification. You said that you are having inverter issues, but your complaint is that your chassis batteries are going dead. First, the inverter should have nothing to do with the chassis batteries. The inverter is supplied only from the house batteries.
Second, are you sure that your inverter is recharging your house batteries properly, and if so, is your Echo Charger functioning properly. All of this needs to be operating properly to prevent the engine ECM (electronic control module) from discharging the chassis batteries.
Gerald
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William,
There are a few issues in your original post that need clarification. You said that you are having inverter issues, but your complaint is that your chassis batteries are going dead. First, the inverter should have nothing to do with the chassis batteries. The inverter is supplied only from the house batteries.
Second, are you sure that your inverter is recharging your house batteries properly, and if so, is your Echo Charger functioning properly. All of this needs to be operating properly to prevent the engine ECM (electronic control module) from discharging the chassis batteries.
Gerald
Gerald, I too am noticing a discharge of my chassis batteries. That's even with the switch off.
How do you check the Echo charger to see if it is functioning properly?
My mechanic says the chassis batteries are wired correctly.
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Les,
The Echo Charger can only charge when your charger inverter is charging your house battery bank at around 13V. If the house bank is at 13V or more then there is a green light on the Echo Charger that should be on and not blinking. If that is the case then measure the voltage on the 12V chassis batteries and see if it is 13V also. If the green light is blinking or if the chassis battery voltage is not near 13v then something is not working right.
Even with the chassis battery switch off there is several amps of discharge taking place due to the engine ECU remaining powered with the switch off. That is why the proper operation of the Echo Charger must be maintained.
Later Ed
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Les,
The Echo Charger can only charge when your charger inverter is charging your house battery bank at around 13V. If the house bank is at 13V or more then there is a green light on the Echo Charger that should be on and not blinking. If that is the case then measure the voltage on the 12V chassis batteries and see if it is 13V also. If the green light is blinking or if the chassis battery voltage is not near 13v then something is not working right.
Even with the chassis battery switch off there is several amps of discharge taking place due to the engine ECU remaining powered with the switch off. That is why the proper operation of the Echo Charger must be maintained.
Later Ed
Thanks Ed.
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William,
There are a few issues in your original post that need clarification. You said that you are having inverter issues, but your complaint is that your chassis batteries are going dead. First, the inverter should have nothing to do with the chassis batteries. The inverter is supplied only from the house batteries.
Second, are you sure that your inverter is recharging your house batteries properly, and if so, is your Echo Charger functioning properly. All of this needs to be operating properly to prevent the engine ECM (electronic control module) from discharging the chassis batteries.
Gerald
So ive been chasing issues where both battery banks go down at the same time using the inverter, so if i turn on the inverter it will drain chassis and house. i replaced the House batteries with new trojan t-105s, thought that was the issue. well it wasn't
so i have been having two external 20amp battery chargers one set to each bank, to keep the charge up i turn them on ever other day or so.
i came home from some errands and i had set the chargers to 20amp charge to top of the batteries as the interver didn't have enough power to run.
one of the chassis batteries was smoking out of the ports you put water in, evidently it was low on water. so i un plugged tht battery switched the cut off for the whole bank off went back inside and tried the inverter. it wouldn't turn on.
go back outside and switch the bank on (single chassis battery) and the inverter power up. lasted about 2 hours before going low voltage and the tv shutting off.
so 2 days ago i put two new chassis batteries in thinkign this would solve the problem after speaking with a inverter repair guy, tells me if the heart remote is showing 12volts, and your inverter works with voltage its fine nothing wrong with it, its your batteries. Fair enough i smoked one decided to change them.
so after changing them i have been monitoring the charge and they are not charging to full light for battery life is always yellow not green.
so my thoughts are right now is A the inveter should work with the chassis batteries disconneted, so this tells me that the large cables conneted to the battery banks are somehow not connected to the proper banks.
Hence me asking for some battery bay pics.
i plan to go buy a a tone generator to trace the battery cables back to the inverter so see which one is back wards.
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here is what my Heart monitor says
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OaAkIQei4P4/VAZ7G8MKglI/AAAAAAAAPco/7f5WrfNlG6U/w1081-h608-no/20140902_211944.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rZATjTR4efY/VAZ6xAcx1LI/AAAAAAAAPcc/uPpR4-Rpaww/w1081-h608-no/20140902_211937.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jiqxqSdoUXc/VAZ6uxTu7MI/AAAAAAAAPcQ/keIhWf1CFG4/w1081-h608-no/20140902_211931.jpg)
ill take some better pics of the battery bay ina few mins
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battery state never goes green, unless i charge the batteries with external chargers.
both battery banks go up if i hook a charger to one bank but the charger errors out so i hook one up to each bank to get them charged up.
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William,
Is the coach hooked up to shore power? If so, the inverter should keep the batteries charged.
Gerald
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William,
Is the coach hooked up to shore power? If so, the inverter should keep the batteries charged.
Gerald
yes 50 amp shore power, this is why i thought the inverter was bad, charging doesn't change much if i turn on the inverter or turn it off stays the same as far as i can see at 12volts.
im starting to think the 12volt light is the current voltage not the current charging voltage.
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William,
If you are your batteries run down when you are on 50 amp shore power, your inverter either has the charging function turned off, or it is defective if the shore power current is getting to the inverter.
When on shore power, the inverter has a pass-through circuit that sends the shore power current through the inverter, and therefore the inverter does not function when on shore power. It simply goes to stand-by mode and waits for the shore power to stop before beginning to invert again. It sounds like the pass-through circuit on your inverter is not functioning also.
With the inverter turned off, you should have 120 volts coming into and out of the inverter. The inverter should also be charging the house batteries when on shore power. It sounds like your inverter has two failure issues. Remove all power from the inverter, both 12 volt and 120 volt, for about a minute. Then reconnect the 12 volt followed by the 120 volt power. If nothing changes, you need a new Magnum inverter. Do not waste your money buying another Xantrex inverter.
Gerald
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William,
How come the 'AC In" light is not illuminated on the CMP panel? If hooked to shore power, shouldn't it be on?
Steve
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William,
Like I said earlier, You should have 120 volts coming into and out of the inverter. Before you condemn the inverter, be sure to check that you have 120 volts coming into it. If the circuit breaker for the inverter in the rear 120 volt breaker box is tripped or defective, you will get the same conditions.
Gerald
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It also sounds like the transfer switch could be bad. I just went through that on mine. I wound up having a bad inverter also but I went in circles for awhile because the inverter was still working to supply power to the coach even without having shore power. (does the inverter work, as in charge and pass through 115 on generator?) After changing the transfer switch it still would not pass the 115 through or charge the batteries. After buying a Magnum inverter I discovered that it does not do some of the same stuff the Xantrx did causing me to have to buy some extra items. The magnum does not have an internal battery monitor to monitor the state of charge of the house batteries. It also does not have internal gen start function like the Xantrex does. This was an added expense of around $500 to have the same capabilities with the magnum. To make matters worse I now have a friend that is an authorized Xantrx and Magnum repair tech and he tells me he could have fixed it! ARRRGGG!
Good luck
Jerry
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William,
If you turn off the inverter/charger and the shore power, leave the battery switches on, and then measure the house and chassis battery voltages with a digital meter at the main battery terminals that have the red wire and black wire leads that go to the coach attached to them. Record the house and chassis battery bank voltages. They will not be exactly the same.
Then go to the large red and black leads at the inverter charger and measure the DC voltage there. It will very closely match the voltage that you recorded for one of the battery banks given there is no load or charging going on. The one that is very close or the same is the one that is connected to the charger inverter. This avoids any confusion from a signal tracer. If that happens to be the chassis battery bank plus lead then you need to exchange the main plus leads on the two banks that head to the coach.
Later Ed
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was too tired to check last night, these 14 hour work days are kicking my butt,
im starting to think that the the transfer switch or the passthrough part of the inverter is malfunctioning, because ever since i bought the coach if the inverter was turned off no power in coach.
but it used to keep the batteries charged.
maybe ill have the energy this evening to go poking about.
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William,
If your A/C units are working on shore power, the transfer switch is working.
Gerald
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On mine the ACs worked on generator only. That's when I figured out the transfer switch was bad. The shore power relay in the transfer switch was the part that was bad.
That's why I asked if things were working on generator and not on shore. It really had me running in circles until I did some studying after a conversation with Gerald that got me going in the right direction. Jerry
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William if your coach has a remote inside which most do you turn your inverter on there but leave the switch on the inverter itself off. Jerry at least with the Magnum you have a pure sine wave inverter now that will last you for years. I hope you kept your old freedom inverter because most likely it was just a fuse or one of two circuit boards that need rebuilt or replaced. They are in the front right corner after you take the lid off. Your Freedom would make a good spare or power a stick built house if needed at any rate working it is worth over 1,000 dollars. William your inverter has two separate systems one to convert 12v power to 120 and one to charge the batteries. Looks like maybe the battery charger could be bad or it could be a fuse there is one in particular between the positive cable from the house batteries to the inverter that could be blown. Gerald and Ed can surely help you test your voltage. I also had a problem with a shorted out cable that runs between the inverter and the remote. I had to run a new cable. (on a freedom 2,000)
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William if your coach has a remote inside which most do you turn your inverter on there but leave the switch on the inverter itself off. Jerry at least with the Magnum you have a pure sine wave inverter now that will last you for years. I hope you kept your old freedom inverter because most likely it was just a fuse or one of two circuit boards that need rebuilt or replaced. They are in the front right corner after you take the lid off. Your Freedom would make a good spare or power a stick built house if needed at any rate working it is worth over 1,000 dollars. William your inverter has two separate systems one to convert 12v power to 120 and one to charge the batteries. Looks like maybe the battery charger could be bad or it could be a fuse there is one in particular between the positive cable from the house batteries to the inverter that could be blown. Gerald and Ed can surely help you test your voltage. I also had a problem with a shorted out cable that runs between the inverter and the remote. I had to run a new cable. (on a freedom 2,000)
the only switches ive seen on the front of the inverter are the breakers and if they are off nothing works that is connected to the inverter.
i think its clear the pass through function is not working somehow but i probably wont get the chance to troubleshoot until after vacation, leaving sunday for 3 weeks in europe.
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William if your coach has a remote inside which most do you turn your inverter on there but leave the switch on the inverter itself off. Jerry at least with the Magnum you have a pure sine wave inverter now that will last you for years. I hope you kept your old freedom inverter because most likely it was just a fuse or one of two circuit boards that need rebuilt or replaced. They are in the front right corner after you take the lid off. Your Freedom would make a good spare or power a stick built house if needed at any rate working it is worth over 1,000 dollars. William your inverter has two separate systems one to convert 12v power to 120 and one to charge the batteries. Looks like maybe the battery charger could be bad or it could be a fuse there is one in particular between the positive cable from the house batteries to the inverter that could be blown. Gerald and Ed can surely help you test your voltage. I also had a problem with a shorted out cable that runs between the inverter and the remote. I had to run a new cable. (on a freedom 2,000)
Thanks Gary, I still have it just in case the insurance company wanted to see it. I also know a tech who is certified to work on xantrex and magnums now so I'll have him look at it.
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just got back from Europe and installed my microwave yesterday that died, with a new samsung convection unit, and ordered a MS2812 Inverter to replae this one just tired of messing with it.
i hope to repair the xantrex after i remove it to replace later on if i sell or trade in the coach
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got the ms2812 inverter installed it worked immediately with no problems everything charging properly and smoothly
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got the ms2812 inverter installed it worked immediately with no problems everything charging properly and smoothly
We've had our MS2812 for nearly 18 months and it works flawlessly. Switchover from shore power or generator is more reliable and a lot faster (the DirecTV DVR doesn't reboot).