BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Jerry Carr on October 23, 2014, 06:08:02 PM
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while heading home from Kerrville I got a warning light and checked the alladin for engine issues,. the temp was climbing fast so I pulled off I-10.
The Rett Porter told me to call Massey so after the tow... we found the Hydraulic pump total failure,. Now we think the Power steering and fan motors will all need to be replaced but Tom is looking them over. looks like 2-3 weeks for a fan motos.
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sorry to hear about your misfortune. any ideas yet as what may have caused the failure. Good luck. Keep us informed with the repairs.
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Hi George, I really don't know the cause but it was catastrophic the pump shaft is about 1” diameter, I can guess that the splined gear that slips into the PTO did experience the shear due to the internal failure of the bronze fitting inside the pump. When they cracked the case open it was a total mess.
The shop here in AZ is called Massey Diesel they are very thorough and feel that the filters in the close hydraulic system would not be able to filter the shavings. Tom the Manger wants to change the power steering pump and the fan motor to prevent a failure later on.
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Jerry,
I don't think I have ever seen a hyd pump fail like that, something had to have gotten into it to jam it causing it to lock up and break the input shaft. I suppose if the bushing failed and the shafts got that loose they might not mesh or the gears climbed each other. Probably so torn up now that you could not figure it out.
What brand of hyd pump do they use.
On my 06 Thunder I change to filter to a much larger unit. I asked the tech's at Filtri about the by-pass always lifting on the filter housing and they said the the orig filter is way to small so I went to a larger unit. It still lifts the bypass when the oil is cold which they say is normal. Was thinking that when that bypass is open a piece of metal from somewhere could get into the tank and from there straight into the pump,,,and bang. Oh! and of course will happen 6 miles west of nowhere, with no cell service.
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Jerry,
Sorry to hear about your issues. You are in good hands at Massey. Tom has been there since the mid 80s and is extremely knowledgeable and honest. They have done all my shop required maintenance on our coaches. No complaints.
Good Luck! Steve
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The folks at Massey still have my rig, it looks like 3-4 weeks for Monaco to get a new Hyd. Pump, Tom at Massey did break open the power steering pump and the Hyd.Cooling fan motor they all had major damage. the next target is the power steering box. So far my extended warranty look good for the cost I am lucky that I still had 5 months coverage. It looks like I will renew that coverage if they will take me.
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Geez Jerry sorry for the misfortune. Glad it happened after Kerrville not before. Just know we are pulling for ya!
Keith and Carol
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More news all Bad on the Fan motor, Massey just called me with information provided by Monaco who told use 2-3 week originally for the cooling fan motor. Massey call today as a follow up and was told now that the pump would not ship until mid February shipping from Italy. Monaco has no inventory.
Loos like we are SOL I really can't use a used pump because of the extended warranty.
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Wow do I ever feel for you guys !!
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Just scared the heck out of me, Jerry - like Lee's ours is an '06 too. What extended warranty do you have?
Joel
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ITALY? WT heck? Can't ya just fly over and pick it up? :)
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Maybe we should get John Deere to make coaches - parts are always available or next day ;)
I assume Massey is looking at all sources as you'd think the hydraulic pump,etc can't be unique to these coaches. Even here there is a metal shop that has rebuilt pumps for the farmer that rents my land - a rebuilt maybe not perfect but still better than weeks.
Amyway, since I have essentially the same coach, your predicament gives me pause to think what happens and what I'd do if it lets go in the middle of nowhere (or even somewhere).
Jeff
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The part that Jerry is waiting for is the hydraulic fan motor, not the pump, and yes it is fairly unique to Monaco coaches. A friend of mine had one start leaking about 2 years ago on his 06 Thunder from a cracked housing. He got the same song and dance from Monaco then, and ended up finding a used motor to repair his coach.
It appears that Monaco will not stock an adequate number of the motors, because of expense. The manufacturer sold off the division that makes them to a European company who only has a production run on this motor when there are enough orders to warrant. In other words, it will be months before the motor is made, but delivery will only take a few days.
Gerald
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What years and models have that particular fan motor?
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Gerald is correct on the SAI fan motor it does come from Italy when I spoke with Loren Robertson at Monaco he explained this was a motor used by Monaco. He know of no other company that used this part. Yes I could use a used motor but my warranty would be void. My hope is I can have a motor before the Hula in Hemet Rally
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John,
I think that that particular fan motor was used on the Thunder, Marquis, and the other high end Monaco coaches from about 2004 and later. The good news is that failures are rare for these hydraulic motors, and Jerry only needed one because his pump failed, damaging it with metal in the oil that runs the motor.
Gerald
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Jerry
Carol and I are sure sorry to hear about your delima. Is there anything we can do for you?
Keith
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I can't believe that SAI is the only hydraulic motor that will work, I would be making some serious mod's to fit another motor. Have you tried any of the salvage yards? These guys have about every kind of coach made in their yard.
http://rvparts.visonerv.com/cgi-bin/welcome.pl?
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If his extended warranty policy didn't probably insist on an original warrantable part, Jerry probably would be doing just that.
Joel
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If his extended warranty policy didn't probably insist on an original warrantable part, Jerry probably would be doing just that.
Joel
I was unaware that the warranty co's require that practice. Doesn't make sense to me to let his coach sit for months waiting for a part that probably can be replaced with another that is available. It just figures that Monaco would use a part or piece of equipment that is special order and costs a small ransom.
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I was unaware that the warranty co's require that practice. Doesn't make sense to me to let his coach sit for months waiting for a part that probably can be replaced with another that is available. It just figures that Monaco would use a part or piece of equipment that is special order and costs a small ransom.
I talked to Jerry a couple times on the phone. He is stuck in a bad spot. He seems to be in the "perfect storm" for motorhomes.
First, the extended warranty company has it's requirements. But, second, the company doing the work has some too. The pump failure sent metal down stream and attacked the fan motor and power steering motor. All three have to be replaced.
Second, the service facility has requirements too. If a "used" or "surplus" part is installed, and there is a failure in the system after the repair, would you expect the service shop to back up their work?
On top of all that, this failure is so rare, that should someone put the pump in stock in their parts room, it could be old and out of warranty before it ever left the parts room.
Making everything worse, the company that made the pump for Monaco apparently went out of business in the Great Recession by selling out to an Italian company with worldwide applications. It can be entertaining and frustrating to Google for "SAI Hydraulics".
Jerry's and Chris's only choice seems to be renting from CruiseAmerica if the want to get out of Seattle's gloomy winter weather!
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I talked to Jerry a couple times on the phone. He is stuck in a bad spot. He seems to be in the "perfect storm" for motorhomes.
First, the extended warranty company has it's requirements. But, second, the company doing the work has some too. The pump failure sent metal down stream and attacked the fan motor and power steering motor. All three have to be replaced.
Second, the service facility has requirements too. If a "used" or "surplus" part is installed, and there is a failure in the system after the repair, would you expect the service shop to back up their work?
On top of all that, this failure is so rare, that should someone put the pump in stock in their parts room, it could be old and out of warranty before it ever left the parts room.
Making everything worse, the company that made the pump for Monaco apparently went out of business in the Great Recession by selling out to an Italian company with worldwide applications. It can be entertaining and frustrating to Google for "SAI Hydraulics".
Jerry's and Chris's only choice seems to be renting from CruiseAmerica if the want to get out of Seattle's gloomy winter weather!
Bill,
Yes I understand all the requirements of all the parties involved, it is very rare that a hydraulic pump goes south. I don't think I have ever heard of a hydraulic motor failing completely like his. I have run lots of equipment over the years with hydraulic systems without any failures. I've heard of motors and pumps getting worn out but not just flat blown up.
It's a bad deal all around.
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My Choice warrenty is in it's last year "Darn" I am working with Ty on a possible option for the pump but I think I will still have an issue with Massey not wanting to put on a used pump they like the Extended Warrenty company will only use new parts. We have everything short of the fan motor. I am very comfortable with the folks at Massey and hope that Ty will be able to come up with a fan motor.
Monaco/Allied on the other side of this issue really is a very poor company, I would never buy another product made by them they don't have the interest in taking care of the customer.
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Jerry, Why can't you just use another brand pump. Parker makes quite a few pumps. I would bet you could modify one to fit. Also I would think the Parker pump would cost much less.
Steve J
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Jerry, Why can't you just use another brand pump. Parker makes quite a few pumps. I would bet you could modify one to fit. Also I would think the Parker pump would cost much less.
Steve J
Steve, I'm with you, if one had all the spec's on the pump and motor I'm sure you could come up with a solution. Does anyone know what the output flow rate and pressure for the pump or the speed and hp of the motor?
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Have you considered taking the motor to a hydraulic equipment/repair facility?? They should be able to help you with a cross reference. The steering pump is Cat so the specs should be available from the tech dept.
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Dick,
The hydraulic pump on latter model Beaver C 13s is not engine driven, so I doubt that it is a Caterpillar part. On these coaches, the hydraulic pump is driven from the PTO outlet on the transmission.
Gerald
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Is this pump the same across multiple years and models? Anyone know the cost of the pump?
Later Ed
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Ty Kelly has offered to rebuild a used pump for me at a cost??, I have to take the new pump from Monaco they will not let me cancel the order even though they admit that it's not in production and will not ship until mid Feb. What a great company Allied Specialty is!!
Ty would give me credit for the rebuild if I send the new pump to BCS. That’s a pretty good offer but my shop in AZ thinks I should wait for the new pump from Monaco.
The concern is the rebuild is an unknown do they have the parts, can they test the fan motor properly if it is not done perfectly this is a high speed motor under extreme operating environments. Should I choose to use the rebuild everything would be new in the system except the fan motor and if I have a failure we would go back to ground zero but this time with out a warrenty. I think Ty is trying to really help us out of this fix and for that I am thankful but Tom at Massey makes some sound points.
Do you have any comments?
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Jerry,
It would certainly have a bearing what was wrong with the old pump that is being rebuilt. If it was something mechanical I would take a pass. If it was a leaking Oring or seal and they have experience rebuilding them for that issue, then the decision can be a little less clear. I would consider negotiating having them rebuild and install the pump ( or Massey) and when the new pump is in replacing the used one with the new. You would have a choice of trading that pump back to BCS for an agreed to amount or keeping it as a spare. This is a little more costly, an extra install and pump, but it gets you on the road sooner if that is important.
Later Ed
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Ed the pump that BSC has is not mine I dont now the history on it but was told that it was a good pump by Mike in parts I ased them to check on the possibilty of doing a rebuild on this pump. If the required parts/seals are available then this pump coulb be shipped to AZ in about 2 weeks. No really knowing what will happen I did need to cancel my planned AZ winter. If I can get the rig back before Hemet I will be a happy camper