BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Bill Randle on June 09, 2015, 05:48:13 PM
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So, I replaced the chassis batteries a couple weeks ago and since then have been unable to start the engine (2005 Monterey). I have the wires connected correctly (AFAIK) - all the reds to positive and the big black and little white wires to negative and the connections are tight. When I turn on the ignition switch, the indicator lights come on and the warning buzzer sounds, but as soon as I turn to start, nothing - doesn't even attempt to turn over. The batteries are fully charged, as I put them on an external charger for 24 hours over the weekend before my latest attempt.
I stopped in at BCS and talked to Ken for any hints and he mentioned the white wires being connected to ground, which I verified, then asked if the transmission panel was lit up - it wasn't - so he suggested maybe the transmission control unit fuse located in the battery compartment. I checked those fuses this morning (there are like 7 of them with individual black covers) and they all had voltage on both sides of the fuse, indicating they are good.
Is there another fuse someplace else that might the culprit? Or something else entirely? What should I check next?
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Bill,
There was a long thread on a similar occurrence a year ago or so. The original problem was that the chassis batteries had been hooked up backwards, resulting in a number of blown fuses. The owner found all he could but the engine wouldn't turn over. The outcome was that he finally found a fuse for the transmission panel in the console to the left of the driver's seat. If the transmission panel isn't lit, the engine won't start.
Steve
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Thanks, Steve! I did do a search before I posted my question, but must not have used the right search terms, as I didn't find anything relevant. I'll check to left of the drivers console for fuses for the transmission panel. Ken said the ignition/engine start goes through the transmission panel so that's obviously my problem. It's just a matter of finding the right fuse now.
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Yes, that was me that had the brain fart almost two years ago now. I was in a hurry because I was late to depart for 4th of July camping with family.
As you sit in the pilot's seat the transmission shift pad is just left of your thigh and is attached to the top of a "console." On the seat side of the vertical sidewall of the console there should be several screws that hold that vertical side-cover on. Remove the side-cover to allow entry into that console. In side the console and right under the shift pad there will be a black box. Inside that box there are a couple fuses. Check them all and replace the blown ones.
The engine MUST have a report from the transmission that it's in neutral. If no report due to 1) a blown fuse or 2) the transmission is not in neutral, then the engine will not start. It's a PITA to get in there because you have to lay on the floor in front of the pilot's seat, or reach over the seat as best you can.
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Thanks, David!!! That helps a lot. I'll take a look at it tonight.
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David, I finally had time to work on this. By black box under the shift pad, are you referring to what is on the underside of the shift pad that looks like a black plastic cover plate for the pad, or are you referring to a separate standalone box with cables going in and out (the transmission ECU box)?
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If memory serves here, I believe the black box is immediately below the transmission shift pad enclosed in the "console" with a vertical panel-cover held on by several screws. The black box was about 5" L x 5" W x 2" D. Several screws hold the black box together in a clam-shell fashion. Inside that black box I found a couple (?) auto fuses, one of which was blown. After replacing the blown fuse the transmission keypad had power and worked normally. Before replacing the blown fuse the transmission keypad appeared completely without power.
This black box I am referring to had wires coming/going from/to it... with the wires long enough to pull the black box out from under the console to more easily open it to inspect the fuses.
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Hmmm.... What I saw was something like this:
pad
====================== console
|___| <- cover
-----------
________ [ Alladin ] <-- black plastic
[ ] [ ]
[ ECU ] ------------
[______] <-- metal
box
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At this point you have me questioning my memory of the event which occurred nearly two years ago. I do remember calling Ken Carpenter at Beaver Coach Sales in Bend, and he told me about the engine requiring a signal from the transmission that it's in neutral. And he said to look under the transmission keypad, open the black box and check the fuses. It took me ten minutes after the call and the engine was running. That's how I remember it regarding this one issue, that being to get the engine started.
In all, I think I replaced one heavy duty blade fuse in the battery bay fuse enclosure box, one or two fuses in the metal leveling box on the ceiling in the electrical bay, one power line fuse to the Kenwood behind the dash coming from the ignition key direction, one of two fuses in the onboard Onan generator, and one fuse behind the hand rail over the entry steps (something to do with the radio I believe). And I'm not sure at this point if I am remembering all the blown fuses I found. I'm not even sure I have found all the blown fuses yet... because the 6-pack diskette changer still doesn't want to operate.
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Thanks. I looked in the 5x5x2 black box and nothing in there but relays. I'll drop the cover off the keypad and next and see if there's anything in there or if it's just a cover. Your '04 Marquis may also be slightly different than my '05 Monterey, but you would think this would be close to the same.
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Bill - I found the thread I started two years ago. If you care to read it, or some of it, then it's found here:
http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,2701.msg20864.html#msg20864
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Bill
Have you checked the cable at the starter.
L Dedrick
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Thanks, Larry. No, I haven't. I've been told that is the transmission shifter keypad is not lit up (which it's not) it wont try to start, so that's been my focus. There must be a blown fuse somewhere - I just need to find it. I have one more place to look in the underneath the console area, and it's not there, I guess I stop in at BCS and ask Ken again.
David , thanks to the pointer to the original thread. Sadly, it looks like there are differences between our two coaches in what they put under the console. It's been a big help to point me in the right direction of what to look for, though.
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Bill, just in case you don't already have this. -Joel
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Thanks, Joel!
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Followup: I got it fixed and running tonight. Yay! David T. Richelderfer was spot on and I am a dunce. I looked right at the square black box under the shifter console are somehow saw the "Allison" written on the box and saw the word "Alladin". Then further when I took the cover off anyway. earlier, I saw the six relays but no fuses. When I looked at it again tonight I saw it really said Allison on the cover, opened it up again and this time cranked my head all the way back in there and at the windshield side of the box there was a fuse, hidden out of direct sight. Yes, it was blown and replacing it solved the problem.
For those that see this thread in the future I was also confused by the fact that there are *two* Allison boxes under the console: a metal clamshell that has the actual ECU circuit boards and the black plastic box with the six relays and two fuses. I also found out that on some coaches, the black plastic Allison box is mounted to the wall of the front electrical bay instead of under the console.
Thanks to everyone who responded to query with suggestions (especially, David) and also to Jeff at Bend RV Repair. I stopped in and talked to Jeff this afternoon and he showed me one and said this is what it looks like and that it is either in the electrical bay or under the console.