BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Jeremy Parrett on December 14, 2015, 05:45:26 PM
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MY Generator is showing Code # 27. PMA Sense Lost. The repair will involve removing the generator from the coach.
Gerald, can the generator slide out sideways by removing the generator access panel and frame on the slide same as we did for the basement ac unit or must I have the coach lifted to access it from below ??
Could the power box in Las Vegas with an open neutral we plugged into and fried the transfer switch also have caused this generator fault.???
Thanks, Jeremy
at Newman Power Systems in Ft Pierce Fl an Onan Cummins Dealer.
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Jeremy:
On our 2001 Marquis, they took out that generator from the side. Tight fit but they had done it on other coaches so I had confidence in them. Don't have the 2001 anymore.
Good Luck
Larry D.
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Jeremy,
The generator will come out the side with a small forklift, but it is a tight fit. I can not be sure if your generator issue is connected to your previous campground wiring problem or not. Your best course of action is to ask your service provider and get a written statement stating their belief if they think so.
Gerald
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Jeremy, I had an issue with a bad campground pedestal awhile back and it did indeed affect the genny. The inverter needed to be replaced and was covered by the insurance claim. Total bill for all the damage was over 10K.
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Dick,
The insurance claim, is that a special insurance or just the comprehensive Rv insurance? I'm just wondering if this happens to me if my auto insurance on the RV should cover it.
Mike
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Mike, that was just the comprehensive coverage on my RV insurance. I must admit they were very reasonable to deal with and, in the case of the Gen set, as long as the repair facility made a good case for the claim, there was no issue.
In my limited experience, the service manager is everything when making a claim. They must know just what buttons to push and which ones to leave unpushed. Ken at BCS is a master at dealing with insurance as an example.
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"Could the power box in Las Vegas with an open neutral we plugged into and fried the transfer switch also have caused this generator fault.???"
ABSOLUTELY - an open neutral wreaks havoc.... File an insurance claim and let your company subrogate with whoever.
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http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/open_neutral.htm
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Thank you. Indian River RV in Sebastian Fl are going to diagnose and pull the generator next Monday. The camp ground in Las Vegas told us to inform them if we had any further issues. They will be hit for the complete bill.
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If it consumes electricity, it needs a thorough inspection after an event like this
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Jeremy,
The issue that you had with an open ground could have been avoided if you had equipped your coach with something like the TRC Surge Guard 34560 (http://www.amazon.com/Technology-Research-34560-004-Hardwire-Surge/dp/B00HESQ61I/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1450283879&sr=8-5&keywords=rv+surge+guard) or the TRC Surge Guard 34850 portable that I have been recommending for years.
I have been using the hard wired version for 15 years (two different Beavers) and it has saved me many times from either an open neutral or even worse a hot neutral where there is 120 volts on the neutral leg. I have ran into a hot neutral twice and an open neutral several more times in 13 years of fulltiming. The maintenance staff that most RV parks use is very lacking in knowledge and/or concern when it comes to replacing plugs or breakers at the RV pedestal.
Gerald
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Gerald,
we now have a 50 amp TRC transfer switch with all the bells and whistled . I could kick myself for not installing the 50amp TRC surge protector I have had for 2 years in its box in the basement !! Its the built in type. The new transfer switch has all the same features.
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Jeremy,
It is amazing low little benefit you get from a part that is still in the box in the basement, isn't it?
Gerald
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Hi Gerald,
Good one !!
I really was not aware of the issue . Now I know how dangerous an open neutral can be I shall check every box I plug into before I close the breakers.
Have a great holiday. Looking forward to Quartzsite, Jeremy
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It would appear our generator issues were caused by bad maintenance. The flex hose for the air filter rubbed right through the coolant hose. It was not clipped in its correct position. It also flapped around and pulled a connector off the panel.
THe brushes were dangerously worn and have caused an overheat of the stator . Several wires have let go.
Good Sams ESP has approved the fix. It involves a new stator, a new rotor , new brushes and block assembly.
A rats nest was discovered behind the radiator which was very clogged up with years of dirt.
Didn't know Onan used Isuzu diesels back in 2000. Good engines. That's what we have.
After almost 16 years this generator has a new lease on life. The inverter board was tested aok.
Indian River charged 2 1/2 hours to R&R the unit. Very fair. It was an extremely tight fit but doable with door frame and door removed. They used a hydraulic cradle device. The parts are over $2200 .
I am going to ask them if we can install a front mount that Cummins sells , modify the cap and install the generator up front where I can get at all its bits.
We return to Indian River RV in Sebastian Fl on Jan 4th to reinstall the generator. Then we are headed west to Quartzsite AZ.
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Jeremy,
Be careful with weight distribution in moving the generator to the front of the front axle. Many of these coaches were at their limits. It seems like a lot of money and change for access.
Later Ed
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Late reply. Ed, you are right. With the generator in front of the axle it adds more weight by leverage than the 700lbs the generator weighs. Indian River RV in Sebastian Fl. had my side mounted generator out on a hydraulic cradle in about 1 hour.
They allow 2 1/2 hours for the R&R.
I reckon I could rent the hydraulic cradle and easily do this job myself next time. I asked them to install a new fan belt and check the sensors. Hopefully it will go another um....16 years without any attention...lol !!
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Jeremy,
You will probably find that relocating the generator to the front of the coach is much more expense than it is worth. The dash A/C condenser is located where you intend to install the generator, so it would have to be relocated, and a support structure would have to be fabricated to support the generator from the frame. Several air lines would have to be rerouted and the leveling system air compressor would have to be moved if your coach is so equipped. The fuel tank may or may not clear, and of course the fiberglass and paint work that would be required.
Gerald
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Gerald,
you are absolutely correct. Knowing the generator weight by leverage will be more than the 700lbs it actually weighs if suspended in front of the axle convinces me that it is better located where it is, near the middle of the coach well behind the front axle.
I am also persuaded that this location ,even on more modern coaches is better because of the stress it causes on the chassis and front cap.
Just thinking out loud.
Indian River RV showed me how easy it is to R&R the generator from it side mount location.
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Jeremy,
It may not be inconceivable to have the current design modified so that it could move on a built in roller arrangement by modifying the current mounting system design. If the front of the genset had several made up bolt on large caster roller feet that would handle the genset weight as part of the design it would keep the roller frame from having to be overly robust. I have never looked at this issue with the thought of modifying what we have, but if you are one to want to make change, this is an area that may benefit from some creative thinking. There are some talented local welding shops out there that go beyond just making repairs. I would guess what we pay for a few genset removals and returns may pay for some modified system that makes the existing mount more accessible.
This company has slides rated at over 1000 lbs that are not that expensive. They can be custom designed and made.
http://www.slide-master.com/products/180-cargoslide
Might be a good forum subject to kick around a bit.
Later Ed
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Ed,
that is the way I am thinking. The access door comes off easily. The lower frame rail unbolts. There is about 16th of an inch clearance either side for the removal straight out sideways. Connections are exhaust, power cables ,fuel lines and remote multi plug. I am sure a tray extension can be installed as long as the generator mount height remains the same. The tray might need some form of support when extended fully.
http://www.slide-master.com/products/180-cargoslide The SM3-SP 100% extension would be perfect.
The biggest issue is the top access in its present location . Even a means of lowering the generator 12 inches so you can get over the top would be a huge help. Some kind of hydraulic lift with a flexible exhaust connection maybe.
Just sayin.......
Indian River RV in Sebastian. Fl did us proud. When I climbed aboard to move out of their yard I noticed the dash a/c was running COLD. It hasn't worked in 3 years . I am wondering how that happened ???? Christmas miracle maybe ???