BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Keith Moffett Co-Admin on May 20, 2016, 09:30:39 PM
-
OK, I am having a tough time finding a shop to change over the fluid in the Allison. If I am going to get away from Dextron which is OEM then I dont want to use something I know nothing about.
Not only does no shop seem to flush the system as opposed to just draining and refilling. They dont tell you that they use some off the wall brand of ATF.
Who uses what and where is Transynd available?
-
Keith, I feel your pain! I gave a guy specific instructions. All he had to do was change the transmission filters and refill with transynd. He then used Amsoil synthetic ATF that is not Allison approved and changed it all. That fluid change last year, including all filters and again Amsoil synthetic oil cost me almost 2K and I still need to go back to transynd.
I'm starting to understand why everybody does their own maintenance!
Jerry
-
Keith,
I would recommend you buy Transyd (Castoil and Mobil One brands make approved synthetic transmission fluid) online and the filters (Allison brand). Take the fluid and filters to a shop that you trust and have them change. IMHO, you do not need to flush your transmission before changing fluid and filters.
Good luck,
-
Find an Allison approved shop here: http://www.allisontransmission.com/sales-service-locator
Joel
-
Here in Coburg, Oregon at Cummins Northwest right off I-5 (541)687-0000 , yes 4zero's
They do use Transynd ..I haven't used them yet but I do believe Bill has, I will be using them
soon and their shop look very clean and friendly. www.cumminsnorthwest.com
-
There is no voodoo in the transynd. Just make sure its approved with the same specs (TES 295). I am not familiar with the AMSOIL, however 2K for doing this service is incredible to me.
Mike
-
Jerry
Did you actualy pay the shop for that? They did not do the job and so wouldnt have gotten paid and fjrther would have gotten a bill from me for inconvience in finding a new shop etc. Sorry you got used so badly.
Joel
I have actualy been dealing with several Allison shops and each has drawbacks. Mostly they dont tell you they dont use Transynd. If there is no power flush then only 50% or so is Transynd. Then you change it again and again until the Transynd is about 90% mix. One Allison shop wanted to charge me $104. Gallon for Transynd plus filters plus labor.
Fresh Dextron in a unit that came with Dextron sounds better and better.
-
The Wards International dealer here in Pensacola carries Transynd by Castrol. I think it is worth sticking with that brand to be sure. I have picked up Allison brand transmission filters, Cat brand filters, and they service Cummins here also. You may also check pricing at an International Dealer in your area. I think it was about $48 a gallon, changed it twice and Allison considers that adequate mix to follow the extended Transynd change schedule.
Later Ed
-
Jerry
Did you actualy pay the shop for that? They did not do the job and so wouldnt have gotten paid and fjrther would have gotten a bill from me for inconvience in finding a new shop etc. Sorry you got used so badly.
Joel
I have actualy been dealing with several Allison shops and each has drawbacks. Mostly they dont tell you they dont use Transynd. If there is no power flush then only 50% or so is Transynd. Then you change it again and again until the Transynd is about 90% mix. One Allison shop wanted to charge me $104. Gallon for Transynd plus filters plus labor.
Fresh Dextron in a unit that came with Dextron sounds better and better.
Keith, combination of things, pretty new to me coach, guy who did the service is a friend who honestly thought that was what what was best, that was all filters including air and he only charged me a $100 for labor. All of that was materials and fluids from NAPA. I have this saying that "a free lesson is one that doesn't teach anything." I wish I was smart enough to learn from the free ones but not so much!
-
I did my changeover myself in the yard. I purchased the transyd at a truck center in Tampa Florida along with the 2 filters. It was not difficult at all to do. Drain the fluid, remove the two filter covers and remove the filters. Put new seals on the filters and install torqueing the bolts correctly. Put drain plug in and torque it. Fill with fluid. I had it done in an hour.
-
Keith,
Transynd is a brand name of Allison. When our motorhomes were newer (grin!) there were not a lot of brand choices for what Allison approved under their specification "TES 295". Now there are many choices and Allison shows them here: http://www.allisontransmission.com/parts-service/approved-fluids/on-highway-fluids (http://www.allisontransmission.com/parts-service/approved-fluids/on-highway-fluids)
Last year I needed a quart or two transmission fluid. I stopped at my closest source, Valley Freightliner in Pacific, WA. They did not have the Transynd brand because of price. Instead they had one from the list and I think it was Mobil Delvac. On the bottle it stated that it was approved by Allison under the TES 295 specifications.
The change to synthetic has a theoretical problem. The transmission itself apparently can be drained thoroughly. The transmission cooler, and lines to it, are not easy to drain. I remember reading that there is a technique, but I forget the details. If I remember right, there is a place where you disconnect the return line from the cooler to the engine. After draining the transmission and refilling you (carefully) run the engine long enough that some of the new fluid flushes through the cooler and lines. Then you top off the transmission to replace what was sent through the cooler. It is painful because the flushing is being done with $50 a gallon stuff!
I also recall reading about a double flush method. You do a standard drain and fill with synthetic. After an appropriate mileage interval you do it again. After the second change you have a near zero dilution of old to new.
Considering the cost of synthetic and that our motorhomes are run infrequently compared to the trucks our transmissions were designed for, it may make dollar sense to stick with the old Dextron stuff every couple years. I'm pretty sure that is what Marty does.
For what it's worth, a guy named Tom Johnson apparently wrote the TES 295 specifications. He started a topic on the iRV2 forum that goes on for 65 plus pages. It started in 2011 and is still going! He answers lots of questions! http://www.irv2.com/forums/f125/former-allison-transmission-fluids-engineer-89293.html (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f125/former-allison-transmission-fluids-engineer-89293.html).
-
Bill
as a side note, BCS agrees with you. Ken said if it came with Transynd thats what they use but otherwise its Dextron.
Sure wish I had gotten a maintenance log with this coach.
-
Transynd is a brand name of Allison......
I also recall reading about a double flush method. You do a standard drain and fill with synthetic. After an appropriate mileage interval you do it again. After the second change you have a near zero dilution of old to new.....
Considering the cost of synthetic and that our motorhomes are run infrequently compared to the trucks our transmissions were designed for, it may make dollar sense to stick with the old Dextron stuff every couple years. I'm pretty sure that is what Marty does.......
Actually, Transynd is a brand name of a Castrol product which was developed in collaboration with Allison.
I think most MHs of the vintage of ours were changed over to TES-295 fluids using the two-step drain and re-fill process. Yes, it's expensive to make the change but that's a one-time expense.
According to Allison there's nothing inherently wrong with continuing to use Dexron as long as you abide by the recommended change intervals. Even with low use vehicles Allison still recommends a 12-month change interval with Dexron as you can calculate here: http://www.allisontransmission.com/parts-service/fluid-filter-calculator#cal-results (http://www.allisontransmission.com/parts-service/fluid-filter-calculator#cal-results)
Even though most MH owners probably have not been abiding by this schedule, even if you changed the fluid half as often as recommended the net bottom line cost over a number of years for Dexron and Transynd probably aren't all that far apart.
As for the comment about BCS continuing to use Dexron in older MH's, that surprises me greatly, but I suspect that position has been driven more by not wanting customers upset about needed to do an expensive fill and drain cycle than it has by any technical reasons. It's pretty clear that Allison recommends the use of TES-295 fluids in all of its on-highway transmissions for performance and change interval reasons.
-
Be careful where you get your Dexron. A year or more ago I was made aware that GM had released the formulation for Dexron ATF from their spec control. The upshot is that you no longer know exactly what you're getting when you buy Dexro 111. The best you can do is to buy it from a major supplier (Chevron, etc.), because the Wal-Mart stuff may be made offshore and is to be considered with suspicion. Anyone can call almost anything Dexron111 these days and get away with it because GM no longer controls the formulation.
Just a heads-up
Andy
Bill
as a side note, BCS agrees with you. Ken said if it came with Transynd thats what they use but otherwise its Dextron.
Sure wish I had gotten a maintenance log with this coach.
-
For those that prefer to use Dexron lll (as I do) Chevron and Valvoline both make it and it carries Allison's TES-389 approval for pre-synthetic required 3000 and 4000 model transmissions. Marty
-
Parts Plus has a new Synthetic ATF that meets the TES-295 and TES-389 requirements for around $23 for a gallon. Does it have the Allison stamp of Approval?... I'm not sure I give even a little Poo about that, considering Allison gets a cut of the profits on approved fluids.
-
Parts Plus has a new Synthetic ATF that meets the TES-295 and TES-389 requirements for around $23 for a gallon. Does it have the Allison stamp of Approval?... I'm not sure I give even a little Poo about that, considering Allison gets a cut of the profits on approved fluids.
With all due respect, the Parts Plus webpage for this product doesn't quite say that it meets TES-295 only that it can be used in TES-295 applications which is not the same thing. http://www.partsplus.com/msds/amalie/specs/Parts%20Plus%20Univ%20Syn%20ATF%20130607.pdf (http://www.partsplus.com/msds/amalie/specs/Parts%20Plus%20Univ%20Syn%20ATF%20130607.pdf)
I'm sure that the fluids vendors have to pay to have their products certified as TES-295 compliant, but I'm curious where you get your information that Allison gets a cut of the profits.
And even if they do, TES-295 fluids are a major advancement in automatic transmission fluid formulation that Allison helped fund. Yes, they are expensive relative to Dexron but so are most synthetic lubricating oils when compared with standard products. No one is forcing anyone else to switch his transmission to TES-295 fluids, but neither is there any reason, other than cost, not to do so IMO. Why would anyone NOT want reduced operating temperatures and longer lifetime?
-
Reduced operating temperatures and longer lifetimes, eh? Should I take it morning and night, and how much?
-
I did a little reading and at least it states that it is a full synthetic ATF oil. What concerns me is that it looks like the strategy was to come up with an ATF that is considered universal. They state a dizzying array of suitability from Mercedes to BMW to Honda, GM, etc, etc. along with Allison TES295 applications. I can see why marketing wants this kind of one size fits all, why corporate would want this for profit motives, but there has to be considerable compromises made to be quote "universal" in so many applications. No other major source of ATF that I see makes this kind of claim. If Mobil, Castrol, and Shell dare not do this then you have to wonder about Parts Plus.
While it may be a very good ATF, I would maybe use it in my car or a hydraulic system. I would be concerned about a worst case kind of application like an Allison 3000 or 4000 AT just due to the expense of replacement of that transmission.
You know Parts Plus will never pay, but then I am a conservative kind of guy and maybe others will go where I dare not go. The question would be if you are continuing to use Dexron based on cost then there is probably a good case to be made that this is better... Question is what change interval would you use?
It may be worth a call to Parts Plus engineering and ask the background on this fluid. Has it ever been TES295 tested? Not sure they will share but maybe.
Later Ed
-
I'm not recommending.... just throwing it out there... YMMV.
I just did a Filter/fluid change with DEX III or I might have gone for it myself, but that's just me ;)
Bill
-
Bill,
Glad you threw it out there, it was food for thought. My conservative nature may be all wrong here and they may have done their homework. It is encouraging that it is a full synthetic. Just hard to know for sure without some independent testing and certification results...maybe that will come in time. There was a "Bob The Oil Guy" if I remember some prior posts right, that did the TS295 work. He would be a good one to have weigh in on this maybe...
Later Ed