BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Jerry Emert on June 26, 2016, 05:20:16 PM
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The last 2 times I've put in the 2 front slides there was a delay between pushing the button and the slide starting in. The last time it was about 10 seconds. This time it was a full minute or so. I did push the button 3 or 4 times. This is new. The rear electric went in right away as always. There has never been a noticeable delay before. Any ideas for an easy fix before I am stranded at a CG? Thanks as always. I'll be on the road for the next few hours.
Jerry
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I'm hardly an expert on slides, but just speculating here:
If you can hear the pump run immediately as usual I'd suspect a low fluid condition; but if the non-electric bedroom slide works normally, then I'd think along the lines of a fouled, leaky, or otherwise bad solenoid in the manifold, especially if it's gradually become worse with each use.
It could be also a poor electrical connection at that solenoid. If the pump doesn't run right away, then I would think the issue is more likely electrical involving the switch or a connection in that circuit to the pump motor.
Joel
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Thanks Joel. I should have said in original post that I just had the hydraulic filter changed last week. And it's both front slides ruling out the switch. Are they different solenoids for port and stbd slides? Probably are. So it would have to be something common to both slides. Since the filter was changed, I will check fluid level and hope thats it. Thanks
Jerry
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Yes, there is one pair of solenoids per slide... One for IN and one for OUT, and they oppose one another position-wise on the manifold. Conceivably the filter change may have dislodged dirt around the filter seal that's found its way into a solenoid or two or four. If fluid was low, I'd expect the rear hydraulic slide to be cantankerous too, though. That's why I'd take a gander at any electrical connections at the solenoids too, assuming you hear the pump run in a timely fashion as usual.
I guess if the rear hydraulic slide is smaller, it's sensible that it's cylinders don't need as much fluid as the front slides, and could run fine with on a lower tank. So hopefully that's all that's haywire, and topping up is the fix. If you need guidance there, I haven't personally done it, but can supply info from my manual; as I recall there is a right and a wrong way. The whole thing is up under the front right, near the entry step mechanism, as you may know. It's probably hard to get at to add fluid, and you need to clean things well before uncapping anything so junk doesn't get in the system.
Joel
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The filter that was changed was in the rear passenger side. The one for the fan and such as far as I know. I have not been able to find one in the front. Even when they had my generator out last week for maint. I could not find a tank up there. The condenser for the AC was obvious and that spray insulation was all over the place. I could see the back side of the stairwell easily. Not saying it isn't there. I get them confused all the time because I can't find the one. Also my rear bedroom slide is electric. It has a elect. motor and a chain drive under the bed. So? I guess I'll look for the tank up from
front again. Are we absolutely sure my coach has one? Thanks for getting me back on track Joel!!!
Jerry
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Jerry,
There may be some confusion about the source of your hydraulic fluid to your slides. At least in my 2002 Patriot, the source for the slides is the same as the jacks and is a separate source than the fan, steering and engine. That source is probably the system that they changed the filter in your couch.
I not sure what would be causing your problem other than low fluid in the reservoir that supplies fluid to the jacks and slides. This is not the reservoir that you see in the PS rear compartment. That tank is for the hydraulic fluid for the fan, steering and engine.
Good luck,
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Sorry Jerry, I'm having issues with my computers other than this iPad. Am trying to load an image for you but can't scan to this machine... one darned thing after another this afternoon. Thought I'd posted the slide module here before but can't find it in my photos now. Will put it up here for you shortly.
Yes, Karl's right; that in the rear should be your power steering, fan drive, and other chassis components, not the slideout system. Underneath up front should be a small module that includes the tank and pump motor and a manifold of solenoids - 6 or 8 altogether on mine. It's possible I guess that your model coach isn't configured that way. If I can, I'll try to get a photo so you'll have some orientation when looking under yours.
Don't want you stuck at a campground... been there, done that at Custer, S.D., with an awning that wouldn't retract a few years back.
Joel
Okay, below are two photos I tried to get of what's in question, though with the coach in storage mode and air dumped I'm lucky to fit my hand with camera under there, much less see what I'm aiming at! There are two obvious mountings between the steps and the generator - the auxilliary compressor for the auto air leveling system, and aft of that is your slideout fluid tank - the square black box. On top of it are visible some of the solenoids, and what I believe is the tank fill port bolt/cap. In the rear of the tank should be the pump motor with the solenoid manifold above it. Also included here is the diagram of it from my manual; the view there would be as if you were sitting left of the right front wheel looking forward. All this should help you orient, but admittedly may be entirely a waste of both our time if your coach is vastly different in this aspect.
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I would guess that it is the main solenoid on the hyd pump motor. Mine was doing the exact same thing, you would hit the button and it might go or it might take a couple of button pushes. I found the main 12 v cable to the solenoid was loose. Removed all the connections and cleaned them and replaced all tight, has worked fine ever since. Also as insurance I purchased a spare solenoid so now I know it will never fail but if it does I'm ready $38 part, cheap insurance.
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Jerry,
The filter that you changed has nothing to do with the hydraulic system for your slides. If you do not hear the pump motor run when you push the switch, you either have a bad switch or a bad power solenoid at the pump 95% of the time.
Gerald
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I can not find a hydraulic tank up front. It is wide open spaces where it has been described as being. I can see the back of the entry stairs, the entire evaporator (I think) and fan and the 12v compressor. I'm not familiar with the AC system but it looks like a radiator with fan attached is there. There is no hydraulic tank in that vicinity. I have also found a statement in the owner's manual that says that on a 3 slide coach, all the slides are electric. Quote: The main slide-out room operates electrically (Triple Slide) or by electric switches controlling a hydraulic cylinder (Double Slide).
So that would seem to explain why I can't find a tank. But that doesn't explain why I can't find one for the leveling system. Any clues where that might be or back to the original question, why would elec. slides hesitate to close? Thanks
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Now you're getting in over my head, Jerry. I don't have nor am particularly fond of hydraulic jacks, so that's out of my realm.
If your slides are indeed all electric, then you shouldn't hear a pump ... but then you wouldn't know what that sounds like as opposed to an electric motor individual to each slide anyway I reckon; except that the hydraulic pump will squeal upon reaching each terminus if the switch is held - electric drives may have a an auto-cutout at each end of travel and no squeal.
My guess to look for first then would be a loosened ground wire, either at the switch where you should check hot wires too, at each slide motor, or wherever things attach to the chassis to obtain ground. Conceivably a motor's mounting could ground it and be loose, or have separate ground wires to the chassis. Corroded connections are always a good way to up the Resistance and cause aberrant operation. Extremes of weather can affect these devices also, so keep that in mind if you are now in the Southwest or where ambient conditions are currently intense in some way; problems often clear up upon return to normal. Our chassis electrical bay (driver's side frontmost) has a connector marked "Slide" on the ground buss and also a relay. So you might check wiring integrity in there.
I'm just shooting in the wind here, since your coach is so much different than mine. Hopefully others here can better assist.
-Joel
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Jerry,
Look behind from under the coach on the rearmost compartment on the PS. In my 2002 Patriot is was between the back of the hydraulic tank you can see inside the compartment and the air/dryer mounted on the frame rail. The tank is a cylinder about 20" tall and 8" or 9" in diameter with a braided hose come out the bottom. It has a fill cap that unscrews but is very difficult to see let along fill with fluid... Let us know what you find.
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Thanks again Joel. These things baffle me! Every time I think I know something I'm wrong. I was hesitant to respond when people said to listen for the hydraulic motor when the slide was in or out. I don't really hear anything except the slides sliding in/out. I do know what you mean now though. I have the SMC leveling system with a manual panel instead of the original automatic one. I rarely use it. In may when I had the travel mode issue I put the jacks down to help support the coach when the tech and I were under it. I left the panel on and a pump back on the PS rear quarter near the reservoir that is used for the fan was screaming. I was afraid I burned it up but it worked fine. Is it possible on my Beaver/Safari/Monaco hybrid that the hydraulic levelers also use that reservoir and a pump back there? I know I have branched out some. My ADHD makes it hard for me to keep from jumping around some times lol. 2 of the three slides seem to have that new delay using 2 different inside switches. Bedroom slide seems normal. Does anyone have a diagram of the electric slides? Thanks all.
Jerry
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Jerry,
Look behind from under the coach on the rearmost compartment on the PS. In my 2002 Patriot is was between the back of the hydraulic tank you can see inside the compartment and the air/dryer mounted on the frame rail. The tank is a cylinder about 20" tall and 8" or 9" in diameter with a braided hose come out the bottom. It has a fill cap that unscrews but is very difficult to see let along fill with fluid... Let us know what you find.
Karl, I found something like that directly behind the fuel water separator but no hose on the bottom. Also directly behind the hydraulic reservoir and to the left is another canister, It looks kind of like an upside down larger spin on filter. I can not see the bottom of that at all due to the heat shield above the muffler. I can barely see the top of it over the top of the main reservoir. Thanks again.
Jerry
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Jerry,
Can you take a picture and post or email it to me? Does not sound like the correct reservoir. It should have hoses coming in from the top and a hose coming out of the bottom.
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The one behind the primary fuel filter has no hoses coming in/out the bottom. Not sure but it may be the air dryer as it does have some fittings at the top that may be air. The one behind and to the left of the reservoir is very hard to see. I took a pic but all you can see is what looks like the top of a spin on filter thats mounted with the inlet/outlet on the bottom. You can just see the round part of the "filter" over the top of the reservoir. If I can't get the pics to send! I'll try again later. Thanks
Jerry
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OK, figured out "my" problem. Since all slides are electric instead of 2 being hydraulic, it makes sense now. My wife and I usually check outside before we put in the slides. She goes to the back and puts the bedroom slide in and I do the 2 fronts. The last few times we were in sync with our preps and were trying to put the slides in at the same time. The last time It would not go in it occurred to me that there was just not enough current to be putting two slides at once. I waited until she was done and in it went with no problems. So yet another example of me causing my own problems. But I also learned something. Still not sure where the tank for the SMC leveling is. Can't get good enough pics up in there to give Karl so I will just wait until there is a real need to cross that particular bridge. Thanks for the help, as always yall's assistance is always appreciated.
Jerry
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Jerry,
Look around for something that looks like it has a car starter motor on it. It should be cylindrical both in the tank end and the drive motor.
Later Ed