BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Jerry Emert on October 17, 2017, 01:12:02 AM
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Today my driver's side slide crept out a few inches twice while driving. I didn't notice until I stopped for something a long the way. I've seen before and just read all the forum posts concerning this so I am reasonably sure that the retract valve/solenoid or the check valve are going bad. My questions are:
1. Where are these valves located on the coach? My hydraulic reservoir is just aft of the battery compartment, forward of the main hydraulic reservoir, are they near the reservoir or the slide? I'm going into detail here because of all the description of the reservoir on the forum being under the entry steps. I looked for it for an hour one day. Finally read the manual (duh!) and mine is a round cylindrical tank where I indicated. Anyway...
2. Ball park, how much are they?
3. Are they widely available and in stock at RV dealers? NAPA?
I'm on the road returning to Florida from the balloon festival so trying to decide if it's worth it to stop for a couple of days or just buy the parts and fix if it gets bad enough. We are stopped in Amarillo TX for the night. The slide locks may or may not be enough, may even buy a 2X4 to stick on floor between the slide and the wall. Thanks in advance for your wisdom!!
Jerry
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On ours the solenoid manifold and pump are with the little black tank, Jerry, but up front near the steps as you mention. The tank, pump, and manifold are essentially together as a unit, and not very big. http://hwhcorp.com/mp648490.pdf
I've found that more often than not just moving the culprit slide out a few inches and back in, holding the switch for a second afterwards, perhaps repeating once, will flush the solenoid seals of any troublesome contaminant and the slide will be fine afterward. Or theoretically the offending solenoid's nut may have loosened and need adjusting/tweaking, though I've never done that or needed to; the nut driver for that is on the end of the tank cap, but I wouldn't mess with the nuts without reading instructions as normally they're only used to release pressure for manually pushing a slide in.
HWH's website may clue you to a local qualified service unit. The one time ours were replaced was when the coach was brand new and under warranty, so I can't speak to cost.
In the interim, a 2X2 or 2X4 is reasonable insurance while on the road.
Joel
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On edit I changed a lot of this post. I've since found out by talking to Larry at BCS that this is probably a IDS slide system from Safari days on my Magnum chassis. Any expertise on this system? Thanks
Jerry
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One more pic. Ken Carpenter tells me that the manifold I posted is the leveler manifold. Here is the one and only other solenoid I can find tucked up behind the reservoir. I was on my back pointing phone up. Yes I know it's dirty...Alaska and back so far. Good cleaning to come next month.
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I've identified the system as the IDS or SMC leveling system. The funny thing is that I knew it by the SMC system and it seems that IDS may be a more accurate name to identify parts and such. The slides use this pump and reservoir. I've reviewed all the info on the system in the Coach Assist section and the leveling portion seems well covered. How the slides are integrated is a little fuzzy to me. I found the leveler manifold, pictured above. Does anyone have any idea how the slides are integrated or where the slide manifold, if there is one, is located? I've talked to BCS and Monaco and it seems a little fuzzy with both. As you can tell I'm a little confused on where to look for the issue. Thanks
Jerry
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As said by Joel sometimes the System can get air in it. But I had to push The slide out hold button for 4seconds, close slide and hold for 4 seconds.do this 3 times. Worth a try it work for me
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I helped a new BAC member learn about her coach last spring. See this post: http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,6659.msg48144.html#msg48144
She has the same thing you have, I think. It's a 2003 Patriot, but apparently was on the line when Monaco took over, and they left the old type leveling in place.
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Update...I am a member of a couple Safari groups so I could ask questions about situations like this. Strangely both groups of Safari owners have never heard of the IDS or SMC system. They all seem to use an RVA (I think) with 3 jack system that goes to the ground. So what I am finding out is that the SMC system unique to Beaver, go figure!
Still trying to figure out how the slides are integrated into the levelers. The leveler seem pretty straight forward with a retract and extend solenoid for each jack.
I have also found a hydraulic leak that is probably going to wind up being the problem. I can't really see where it is, just a puddle on the ground under the LR shock. Hydraulic reservoir was full the other day and now not so much.
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Stan,
Monaco took over Beaver production in 2001, during the 2002 model year production run. I am driving a 2002 Beaver Solitaire that has a manufacture date of 07/02/2001, and it is a Monaco built coach with Monaco ID plates.
The SMC leveling system was on most 2002 and 2003 Beavers but not all. Apparently, Monaco used up stock piled SMC leveling systems or contractually obligated systems on most of the coaches they built unit the supply was depleted before changing to other systems. My 2002 coach does not have the SMC system even though Monaco was still using it on Beavers, but it has an HWH air and hydraulic leveling system with the jacks going to the axle like the SMC system does.
Gerald
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As said by Joel sometimes the System can get air in it. But I had to push The slide out hold button for 4seconds, close slide and hold for 4 seconds.do this 3 times. Worth a try it work for me
Laurel, holding the switch for too long may do more harm than good. You don't want the pump to stress against immovable backpressure and overwork unnecessarily; 1- 2 seconds is plenty insurance you're maxed and the solenoid flushed.
Joel
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Update. Still need info if anyone can help. As you know I'm not much of a mechanic but trying to learn. The leak that I noticed after the problem started is, I believe, going to be the problem. My problem is that the hydraulic hose run is so long and well hidden in a "chase" or tunnel from front to back that I have no idea where the other end of the hydraulic line (pump side) goes. I can't figure out how the slide portion of the system works. There are separate retract and extend solenoids for the levelers and a bypass solenoid/valve on the hydraulic manifold. I can see how the levelers should work. I can see and feel the hydraulic"supply" hose flex and move when the slide is activated so I know the "leveler" manifold is used in slide operation. Does anyone know where the hydraulic hose from the slide would be connected? The documentation I have shows hydraulic supply and return lines for all 4 and only 4 leveler lines. So, again, my quandary, just how do the slides interface? How does the hydraulic fluid get from manifold to slide cylinder? Could that bypass valve activate and divert fluid to another manifold somewhere? I know it's kind of a long post but I'm just a little, make that "a lot" confused on how the slide hydraulics work. Thanks for your patience.
Jerry
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Jerry, a few years ago we had our 2001 Contessa at Alliance Coach for a leaking jack issue.
After they worked on it for a couple of days they determined the left rear jack was leaking hyd fluid internally and had bad seals.
They I guess had activated the jacks several times. They said the jack(at that time) could not be repaired. Now I guess they can.
Two weeks after getting the Coach back I left on a trip and during a right turn the living room slide extended almost all the way out. I luckily pulled off the road and managed to retract the slide. i called Alliance Coach(it was a Saturday am) and they asked me to bring it in, two hours the opposite direction I was headed. They checked it out and they had never refilled the reservoir with fluid after dumping a bunch out three weeks earlier.
They filled the tank, ran the slide in and out to bleed the air and it was fine again. Needless to say we didn't get far on our trip the first day. That summer I drove the coach to HWH in Iowa and they removed the IDS system jacks, capped the lines, and installed an air leveling system from scratch. All custom wiring, a new console panel, a new air compressor, and set it all up in 2 1/2 days.
Now the only item that the hyd reservoir is for is the living room slide operation. It was costly but so glad We had it done. Now we have a very fast, and very clean leveling system that works in the blink of an eye.
Good luck getting yours repaired, but not sure Alliance can do it.
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Thanks LaMonte, we also have air leveling from the factory. We rarely use the SMC system basically because I don't trust it but so far it has worked when I needed it, mostly to get under the coach. The slides have worked well except for the leak. I believe it is allowing the slide to come out. The hydraulic line that is leaking is, I think, the one that goes to the cylinder that moves the slide. The leak is under the coach somewhere and I don't know where it goes to. It makes sense that it would go to another valve manifold or even the one that operates the levelers but I just don't know. I was hoping someone here would know but that doesn't seem to be the case. Thanks
Jerry
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Jerry,
have you tried having wife operate the slide switch while you listen around the chassis for the pump-motor/valve noise? Once you locate all the components you may be able to see where lines go, etc.
My 2005 manual has a picture of the Slide pump/valve assembly. Probably not the same as yours since our model years are different, but I post the picture here anyways.
BTW- give me a call (or PM me) if you need an extra set of hands. I'm just two miles down the road from you.
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I know that the hydraulic system is all tied in the same system with the levelers and slide. But you would need to have a couple of people hunt for the leak while moving the slide in and out with fluid in the reservoir. The guy that filled our tank after the mishap came out of the service area and he was covered in hydraulic fluid and grease after working on it.
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Jerry,
have you tried having wife operate the slide switch while you listen around the chassis for the pump-motor/valve noise? Once you locate all the components you may be able to see where lines go, etc.
My 2005 manual has a picture of the Slide pump/valve assembly. Probably not the same as yours since our model years are different, but I post the picture here anyways.
BTW- give me a call (or PM me) if you need an extra set of hands. I'm just two miles down the road from you.
Mike, my leveler/slide hydraulics are different and mounted in a different place. The way I found the hydraulic pump and reservoir was how you suggested. I can see and feel the hose coming from the pump to the manifold move when the slide is activated. I have seen documentation that shows the solenoids on the manifold operate the levelers. Nothing that indicates how the slides are interfaced. My main problem at this point is getting under the coach to figure out where the leak is and where it goes. That has been my mission lately, to obtain the knowledge and materials to be able to safely jack up the beast and make it safe to work under. At that point I'll look for the actual leak and may scream for help! I appreciate your offer and will undoubtedly take you up on it when I recover from Christmas and am able to buy stuff again. If you are working on your coach and need some inexperienced but eager hands give me a call.
Jerry
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I made up some 2x6/plywood ramps that will raise get the back tires 7 inches off the ground. If that's enough height for you, you are welcome to borrow them. I also have two 20T jackstands and a 20T hydraulic bottle jack I can loan you if needed.
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I'll get with you! Probably after New Year. Thanks again.
Jerry
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Jerry, did you get your slide issue resolved?
The reason I ask is my coach began doing the same thing, driver's side front slide inching out as I drive.
There was a hydraulic leak from the slide cylinder. I had the cylinder reworked. The cylinder no longer leaks. But now the slide creeps out while I drive.
The tech, having worked on the cylinder, is aware of the hose connection to the slide cylinder.
Curious if you found the solenoid/manifold to the slide cylinder. Did you replace your hydraulic line?
Thanks!
Paul
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Jerry, did you get your slide issue resolved?
The reason I ask is my coach began doing the same thing, driver's side front slide inching out as I drive.
There was a hydraulic leak from the slide cylinder. I had the cylinder reworked. The cylinder no longer leaks. But now the slide creeps out while I drive.
The tech, having worked on the cylinder, is aware of the hose connection to the slide cylinder.
Curious if you found the solenoid/manifold to the slide cylinder. Did you replace your hydraulic line?
Thanks!
Paul
Paul I gave up and called Pirtek, a Nationwide hydraulic mobile service, at Fred's suggestion. A very friendly tech came to my house and spent about 6 or so hours figuring where all the hoses went to. I was lucky. I told him to replace all 4 hoses but the one on the rear of the hydraulic cylinder on the drivers side went through the frame rail and butted up against the water tank. He could not replace it. The reason I say I got lucky is because it was the other hose to the drivers slide that was leaking. The leak was above the rear axle. So, 3 new hoses and 1100 dollars later, the slide was again operable and not coming out when driving. I never figured out where all the connections were. He did though. Good luck, wish I had better news for you.