BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Larry Fisk on November 09, 2017, 03:29:45 AM
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I had a major repair done on our 2005 Beaver 5 years ago which included a new core on the engine radiator. A weep was noticed on the radiator last week. End result is my radiator needs a new core again after just 5 years!! Metal, brass, radiator; not aluminum. Also I used extended life coolant. The Radiator shop said it failed due to electrolysis and was corroding from the inside out. What a huge bummer!! What can be done to make this new one last more than 5 years? It’s painful to be spending thousands again. 😩
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Larry, I question radiator lasting only five years and core is bad. Many times with radiator
mount in rear and fan blowing outward and small object can penetrate tube and look like
small leak that one would think radiator core is bad. Think I would get few opinions second,
third etc. sounds like someone wants to lighten your wallet. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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Thanks Dave, all the leaks they identified were where the core is joined to the tanks. There were several of them. They said they could repair them for $1,300 with no guarantees or replace the core for $4,200 with a 2 year guarantee. What’s weird is I traveled from Oklahoma to California and never needed to add coolant. The weeps were discovered when they removed my hydraulic system cooler because it was leaking. Just a very small amount of antifreeze on one the vanes. It was cleaned up and pressure tested in my presence. With 14 pounds on the system a damp spot began to develop after a couple of minutes. So, the radiator was pulled and sent in for repair. I too have a very hard time believing it is already compromised by electrolysis in just 5 years. Due to the expense of having to pull it out and reinstalling it I decided to have them re-core it again. I am very ignorant when it comes to these things and relied on their advise. I’m sure you are correct, but I could see no external damage and I could not deny the weep of coolant I witnessed at the tank/ core tie in.
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Larry,
Did you use distilled water to mix with the ELC concentrate?
Steve
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I bought the pre mixed, CAT solution.
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Photo of one of the problem areas. It was literally a weep.
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Larry,
I would be a little concerned in using the same folks to recore the radiator again.
My radiator is also leaking at the rear, top of the core, but a little stop leak has kept us going thanks to Dave Atherton. Cannot see the actual leak point but don't think there are any hoses on the top of the radiator.
I have contacted two sources, Radiator Specialities (855.615.3002) and Source Engineering (541.343.0293) in Oregon. They quoted $3950 and $3911 respectively, plus shipping for an all new radiator. About a week lead-time to build. Part number on my radiator is RS 4847 from the coach information data sheet.
Personally, I am more concerned about the install and where I can find a reputable shop in the Phoenix area. I would rather not use one of the big dealerships if possible. Wondering if anyone has a suggestion??
Good luck Larry!
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Thank you Michael, the first radiator repair was done in Kamloops, British Columbia after a failure of the cooling fan bracket which allowed the cooling fan blades to destroy the radiator. That was 5 years ago. This current repair is being done by Jim’s radiator in Indio, California. It looks like a new radiator from your supplier recommendations would have been about the same price as my second re-coring. Unfortunately I have already authorized the work. Thank you so much for your feedback! I can use some good luck. :)
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Steve, just to clarify the cooling system was flushed 5 years ago and coolant replaced with ELC by Peterson CAT in Oregon. Since then I have carried a gallon of the CAT ELC 50/50 premix coolant and have added as needed, which has not been much.
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The Radiator shop said it failed due to electrolysis and was corroding from the inside out.
You can measure the electrolysis with a digital volt-ohm meter (DVOM). You put negative probe on good ground and stick the positive probe into the radiator coolant (don't let it touch the metal of radiator). Take a reading with engine off and no electrical load (it should be .10V (100mV) or less), then with engine running everything turned on (should be .30V (300mV) or less). If higher then you need to investigate (bad coolant, something has a bad ground, etc.).
You can Google the test procedure - there are some YouTube videos too.
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Thank you! That’s good information to know. I think I’ll be doing this once installation is complete.
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Mike, I don't know from experience but I have a notebook that I use to track good repair shops. Under Phoenix I have Tom Massey Diesel as a reliable source for maintenance. The phone number is 602-269-7045 or 233-1700. I also used Source Engineering for my copper/steel radiator 3 years back. Good luck.
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Larry looking at picture of radiator tube connection to tank. What I see is a very poor solder
job and failure to prep material for solder. This is not a Failure of radiator after five years but
poor work in connection tank to radiator. You mentioned no guarantee if resolder tubes to tank,
but if you buy new radiator there is a warranty but the same people going to solder the new radiator
to present tanks. You made it five years and now problems with workmenship and new radiator
will have a two year warranty for less money, basic what I see radiator not the problem but
getting a good solder repair is a big concern new or repair what you have and outlay of money.
Dave Atherton Retired Mechanic
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Thanks again Dave, the radiator shop did mention the solder job looked bad. I am going to return there today and ask them to please make sure the solder job is done correctly. When they told me that it didn’t really sink in as I was focused on the electrolysis problem they mentioned earlier. Now that you noticed that about the pic it really hits home.
Larry Fisk
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Good morning fellow Beavers Ambassadors! Well, the radiator core replacement and hydraulic cooler repair are complete. All installed and working great. As I mentioned before this is the second radiator re-core job in 5 years. The total cost this time was $9,852. I will definitely be checking my antifreeze condition as part of my maintenance. I thought with the extended life coolant all was well for at least 5 years. I was wrong. Final result is in 5 years I have spent a total of over $20,0000 on radiator issues. So, be sure to include the cooling system in your yearly check off. It could save you thousands. 😫😊
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Larry, your posting has me worried. That's a lot of $ to shell out. What about the Charge-Air-Cooler? Was it tested or replaced since you've owned the coach?
Also, do you have the internal transmission cooler, or the separate tranny cooler (which reportedly have issues too per this thread http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,6682.msg48277.html#msg48277 )?
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Charge Air Cooler was tested and is in good shape. The transmission cooler is incorporated in the radiator. Thank you for feeling my pain. It was a huge disappointment to discover the original repair had failed in 5 years. I’m certainly going to be over zealous now with the cooling system checks.
Larry Fisk
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Another concern for me is the repair guys added tap water to the system instead of distilled water after flushing the system. I questioned it but did not force the issue. How important is using distilled water instead of tap? Is it important enough to ask them to drain the system and use distilled water instead of the tap water they used? Thanks for all input.
Larry
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Another concern for me is the repair guys added tap water to the system instead of distilled water after flushing the system. I questioned it but did not force the issue. How important is using distilled water instead of tap? Is it important enough to ask them to drain the system and use distilled water instead of the tap water they used? Thanks for all input.
Larry
I'm so far from an expert that I can barely spell it! But... I've always been told not to ever put tap water into any kind of radiator. Did it anyway when I was young and poor but wouldn't even think it now. Good luck with getting it straightened out. I live in fear of these big bills. I feel your pain.
Jerry
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Thanks Jerry, I should have been more demanding after spending $9,800. I think I’ll give them a call tomorrow.
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Larry, I will never use tap water except in an emergency. It can contain minerals that you don't want in the radiator and engine. The problem with tap water is not knowing it's source. Was it filtered, treated or direct from a well. Have a happy Thanksgiving!
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Thank you George, I contacted the repair shop and told them I would like them to drain the system and refill it with distilled water and coolant. He said they have always used the tap water and never had a complaint. I explained that the other customers were probably not into cooling system repairs over $20,000 in the last 5 years either. I also went to the Indio Water Authority website and read a comment on there that the Coachella Valley ground water was hard and contained mainly calcium and magnesium. He then agreed to drain the system and refill with distilled water.
Larry Fisk