BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: jeffprupis on December 31, 2017, 12:13:07 AM
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Have both in our '05 Monterey. Headed to colder climates in March. Is one preferred over the other? I would think Aqua Hot preferred when no electricity and block heater when on hook-ups.
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Using your block heater while stationary will rob you of some coach heat. Probably should use electric when sitting.
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Jeff,
Start your generator and use the block heater. Won't rob any heat from coach and should be more efficient/faster than Aqua Hot.
Steve
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We use both. Thinking it's quicker whether true or not.
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I think I only used the block heater once when stuck in a South Dakota blizzard and it went below zero.
How cold does it have to be to need pre heat for starting?
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I use the aqua hot heater when going down the road. Saves the battery for the 110 heater and keeps or get the water hot from the engine. When we get there we have real hot water and has cost us no energy from the batteries. Never used the block heater since I'm in calif and it doesn't get that cold.
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I think perhaps some misunderstood my question. Which is preferred for cold starts (below 40 degrees)?
TIA and Happy New Year to all.
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Jeff, we live in Michigan so frequently deal with temps. below 40. Use the block heater if not in a hurry. Usually turn it on the day before we plan to start the engine. We keep connected to 30 amp shore power. If in a hurry like forgot to turn on the block heater, will use the Aqua hot. I believe the Aqua hot warms the engine much faster than the electric block heater. Have a great year!
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From the manual:
Depending on ambient temperature it may be necessary to pre-heat the engine. If it is necessary to pre-heat the engine, the engine is equipped with a block heater that can be plugged into an external 120 Volt AC outlet. However, it is recommended to use the Hydro-Hot engine preheat function to warm the engine. The Hydro-Hot engine pre-heat function will heat engine coolant and the interior. An indication of 100o F or higher of the engine temperature gauge is suf cient for the engine to start.
Block Heat:
The switch labeled Block Heat operates the receptacle for the block heater cord. The block heater is rated
at 1800 Watts. For ef ciency, hook to shore power in the event it becomes dif cult to start the generator. An auxiliary method is to plug the block heater cord to a separate power cord, as long as the power cord is rated for 15 Amps and the outlet used is GFCI protected rated at 20 Amps. The engine may require several hours of pre- heating before before starting. It is recommended to start pre-heating the engine the night before departure.
NOTE:
The inverter should never be used for the power source. Rapid battery drain and
To Use the Block Heater System:
• Hook to shore power and plug in block heater cord to the receptacle. • Turn on the Block Heat switch at the dash.
Joel
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Hi to my understanding the issue is the engine block temp for starting so it really doesn't matter how you get there. One may be faster than the other or both together is probably quicker still. I use electric Block heat because I would rather use the campground power than my own diesel, and takes about 2 cups of coffee. Once the engine it started neither matters. Electric block heat requires shore or generator power. And if your Hydrohot is the same as mine you have "engine assist" which is the heat from the engine that is used to heat domestic water in the Hydrohot (block heat in reverse) while the engine is in operation and up to temp.
hope this helps. Jim
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Thanks all. FU question. When I turn on the BLOCK HEATER I get a 9amp draw when plugged into CG power. But for the life of me I can't find an outlet (let alone a power cord to plug in) in the engine compartment. Is it possible that the BLOCK HEATER is a permanent HARDWIRED option? TIA
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Jeff, don't know about the Monterey, but in our 07 Contessa the block heater plugs into a dedicated outlet under the bed.
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Ours also has a dedicated circuit under the bed. Switched on/off from dash.
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There is a blank plate marked "Engine Preheat" on the HydroHot switch panel next to the "Diesel" and "Electric" switches. We keep the "Electric" switch turned on all the time when we are plugged into shore power as we are now. We have been experiencing temps in the 20's most nights, up to high 60's most days here in NM.
Questions:
1) Is it possible that a block heater was not standard equipment on this coach (2002 Patriot Monticello) or should I look for a switch somewhere else?
2) Is there a cord I should look for 120VAC plugin?
3) Any other suggestions for pre-heating, or will I be Ok with the ignition pre-heat during the heat of the day?
Thanks for your thoughts, advice, etc.
D. Wendal
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I have the same setup you have.... blank aqua hot engine preheat switch. You do not have another block preheat switch other than the electric switch to the left of the driver’s seat. I turn mine on full time when it gets down below 10 degrees.... or the day before, if below 40, when going on a trip.
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Fred Cook,
Is that the rocker switch with the squiggly line in a rectangle and a "short tail" graphic?
Thanks,
D. Wendal
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Block heaters come in several different forms. Some heat oil, some heat coolant, some heat and circulate coolant, some are simply blankets that are thrown over the engine like an electric blanket on a bed. Our coach does not have a block heater that I know of, but we do have an AquaHot with the Engine PreHeat function. We use it in temperatures under 40F. The couple of times I remember, the AquaHot Engine Preheat took the Aladdin reported engine temperature from cold up to 80F/90F in an hour or so.
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Most CAT engines will de-rate power until coolant temp is about 82F so that is probably the minimum temp one should target during pre-heat.
Steve
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Fred Cook,
Is that the rocker switch with the squiggly line in a rectangle and a "short tail" graphic?
Thanks,
D. Wendal
Yep, that’s it. I don’t use it unless I am going to drive the coach the next day or if the temp gets below 10 degrees. I do use the aqua hot to keep the coach from freezing when it gets below 32 and I set it on 50. Fred
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All coaches did not come with a block heater. I have owned 3 Beaver coaches, and only the 1993 Patriot with propane heat and a 8.3 liter Cummins had a block heater. The other 2 coaches have Cat C 12 engines, and they used the hydronic heating system to preheat the engine. Since this is an optional feature on some coaches, there may be a few coaches out there without a preheat source, but I have never seen one.
Gerald
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Our 2001 Patriot Thunder doesn't have a block heater or engine preheat on the HydroHot. I looked on the rear of the HydroHot and there is no circulating pump there, however the engine preheat fittings have hoses on them so I'm guessing the engine will heat the HydroHot while driving, and provide interior heat.
The rocker switch on the panel to the left of the drivers seat with the squiggly line in a rectangle with a tail is for the mirror heaters on our coach. It is directly behind the mirror adjustment knob.
I suspect I could add a block heater to the Cat C12 engine but in the short time we have had the coach we have not had a need for a block heater. The last time we used the coach at the end of October in 33 degree temperature the engine started easily.
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Our 2001 Patriot Thunder doesn't have a block heater or engine preheat on the HydroHot. I looked on the rear of the HydroHot and there is no circulating pump there, however the engine preheat fittings have hoses on them so I'm guessing the engine will heat the HydroHot while driving, and provide interior heat.
The rocker switch on the panel to the left of the drivers seat with the squiggly line in a rectangle with a tail is for the mirror heaters on our coach. It is directly behind the mirror adjustment knob.
I suspect I could add a block heater to the Cat C12 engine but in the short time we have had the coach we have not had a need for a block heater. The last time we used the coach at the end of October in 33 degree temperature the engine started easily.
OK... I apologize for saying earlier that the squiggly line button was the engine pre-heat. When buying the coach i could not imagine a unit this nice and the price for it would not have an engine preheat so I thought that button was it. The seller did not point that out to me either and that squiggly line on the button seems to indicate liquid such as coolant or oil. So.... i feel like an idiot thinking it was heating my motor in sub zero weather over the past several days. Had i known it did not have a preheat I would have passed on buying it. Now I have a coach that will be difficult to start or maybe won't start in extreme cold temps. Bummer!
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I hate to admit that in five years I have not figured this out completely. The engine heats the hot water and the aquqhot through the aquahot circulation system? Right? The switch next to the drivers seat right behind the mirror adjustment knob turns on the circulation I think?
I need some Beaver Club advice!
Tim Peterson
2000 Beaver Patriot
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We obviously have a different year and model of coach. But here is how I think ours works and the location of the switches on our coach.
Yes, when running the engine's coolant is pumped forward to heat the water (for sinks and shower use) at the Aquahot and offers heat at the dash for interior heating and windshield defrosting/defogging.
When the engine is not running, then the Aquahot will heat water (for sinks and shower use) by both the electric element or the diesel burner. Both the electric element and diesel burner can be ON concurrently, but the electric element only works using either the onboard generator or shore power. The diesel burner and engine pre-heat will work from battery power without the generator or shore power.
The electric element switch is located in the 110v panel in the bedroom and is labeled "Hydronic Heater." The "Diesel Burner" and "Engine Pre-Heat" switches (separate switches) are located on the exterior of the forward wall of the kitchen cabinets over the sink. If the "Diesel Burner" is ON, then its associated green light is ON. The "Engine Pre-Heat" switch does not have an associated green light.
To pre-heat the engine before starting on cold days, turn on both the diesel burner and engine pre-heat. After a time, say 30 to 60 minutes, the engine will be warmed up to 80-100 degrees according to the engine temperature found on the Aladdin/Silverleaf. If running the onboard generator or plugged into shore power, then one could use both the electric element AND the diesel burner to more quickly pre-heat the engine.
The onboard generator can be started/stopped at the generator switch, at the dash switch or at the bedroom switch (3 separate switches at three separate locations).
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Tim,
If I remember correctly the switch you are referring to is labeled Coach Heat and will provide circulation so the engine provides the heat needed for the normal Aqua Hot functions; hot water and heat for the coach if required.
Steve
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Tim, as David notes, the engine has an extra line that routes it’s coolant through the hydronic unit. When the engine is warm that coolant’s heat acts like a 3rd source (besides the diesel and the 110v electric), moved by the engine’s water pump. It is exchanged inside the hydronic unit to the floor heat glycol tubes that run to and from your heat registers, and to your hot water, and then the resulting cooler coolant loops back to the engine. It isn’t intended as a stand-alone source though, but rather as an augmentor, so for complete house heat or hot water your hydronic unit must be on. As long as the engine is running you may as well use that heat energy to reduce the use of diesel by the hydronic burner.
I’ve not heard of one of our coaches not having that feature unless perhaps they don’t have hydronic. But I understand that some rigs may not have the reverse, an engine preheat pump as part of their hydronic unit. If you do, there will be somewhere inside the living area an Engine Preheat switch that activates a separate pump to move the hydronic-warmed engine coolant back through the loop to the engine. On particularly cold mornings that is handy for getting the engine temp closer to 100 degrees prior to breaking camp. Once the engine is started you can turn off the Engine Preheat switch/circulating pump.
Now don’t confuse that switch with another commonly found by the driver’s seat that may labeled “Block Heater”. The Block Heater is an entirely different animal used in freezing climates, and involves a 110v heating circuit to warm the engine oil well in advance of anticipated engine startup. Warmer, less viscous oil is easier for the engine to move at startup. You must plug it into an extension cord from a 20 amp park post or other source. The dash switch merely activates the outlet in the engine compartment that the plug is wired into... at least that’s my take on it since I’ve never had to use it on our coach. Most people don’t as few use their coach in subzero weather deep enough that the hydronic Engine Preheat feature isn’t adequate alone.
Unless you live in Alaska or Canada year-round or have an unusual circumstance requiring the block oil to be heated, you can probably ignore that switch. You should look for an Engine Preheat one however. Ours is handy on the same galley switch plate as the diesel and electric Hydrohot switches, but I know on other coaches the Preheat switch can be mounted elsewhere, or you may not have that feature at all, as I alluded to in paragraph two - it may have been an option and not included. Someone else here with a 2000 Patriot may provide input to help you locate it if it exists.
Joel
Addendum: I see by the 2000 Patriot brochure that a Hurricane hydronic system is standard, not Aguahot. I see no available Preheat upgrade listed, so unless a previous owner changed to an Aquahot along the way, one with a Preheat pump, it may very well be you won’t find a Preheat switch.
That said, our engines will start at nominal temps sans preheating, but it may take longer letting them warm up before pulling out, to better-handle highway rpm’s.
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My wife gets cold when it drops below 70 so I have no worries of ever being anywhere too cold to manage to get the CAT awakened for travel!
I guess I could always open the hatch and add a dryer vent duct to a portable heater for a while. If that would even help at all. I have no idea if it would or not.
She has already nixed my Alaska idea even in the summertime!
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Tim,
Like Steve said, the switch that you are referring to should be marked "Coach Heat", and is so, it only turns on the circulation pump for your Hurricane heating system so you can turn on the heating system to heat the coach when driving without turning on the Hurricane. It does not preheat the engine. If your coach has a preheat option, there will be another switch labeled "Preheat". If you have that switch, it turns on another pump to circulate the engine coolant through the Hurricane system so the Hurricane will preheat the engine if the Hurricane is running.
Gerald
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Just left Memphis yesterday morning. I do not have any preheat capability at all. I was happy that the motor started right up at 26°.
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Just left Memphis yesterday morning. I do not have any preheat capability at all. I was happy that the motor started right up at 26°.
Thats a great thing to hear the engine purring....