BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Bob Bulot on March 20, 2018, 03:43:17 PM
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Aladdin shows 24 volts from the solar panel, but always shows 0 amps. I have checked the fuses at the batteries. Any suggestions where to go from here?
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Bob,
A voltage reading of 24 volts indicates an open circuit between your 12 volt panels and your batteries. Have you checked the voltage in and out of you solar charge controller? If you really do have 24 volts into the controller and 0 volts or chassis battery voltage out (depending on diode configuration), you have a bad controller. But if the controller has an output significantly above chassis battery voltage, you have an open circuit (bad fuse or connection) between the controller and batteries. If you have an open circuit that you can not readily locate, the best way to trace the circuit is usually with a electronic circuit tracer (tone generator).
Gerald
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Thanks, Gerald. I'll go over and check the controller this afternoon. On a sunny day, what should the readout be, roughly?
(BTW: Didn't we meet at the Indio FMCA meet this year?
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Bob,
Unfortunately, I was not at the Indio rally this year because its date conflicted with the CES show in Las Vegas. However, I was the Rally Master for BAC Quartzsite rally the next week if you were there.
The readings that you should expect on the output side of your charge controller will vary by what is the state of charge for your batteries, but I would expect around 13.8 to 13.9 volts at 6 to 7 amps if your inverter is at float charge with 150 watts of solar panels in the Indio area now. But remember these readings are an estimate and if you have any shade on the panels (clouds or trees), the inverter is not at float charge, or if you are using very much 12 volt current at the time, they will not be accurate.
Gerald
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OK. So, my controller is a Heliotrope RV-45D. The voltage measurement at the various terminals on the controller are: Solar: 1.5 to 3.3 volts. House: 11.97 volts, Engine: 12.97 volts. The day was clear and sunny.
At the battery, the wire with the fuse read 4.92 volts at the house battery terminal.
I could not get an amperage reading at any point. The Aladdin reads ”24.3 volts and 0 amps.” I reset the Aladdin, but no change.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated!
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Bob,
Sounds like the controller is not working. Check to see that the switches are in the correct positions just in case. Manual is on web if you need it.
Steve
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Thanks Steve. The switches are on-off-on-on.
Do you know whether this controller is still manufactured?
Bob
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For wet cell house bats the dip switches are as you say yours are set, Bob, and the equalizing charge switch is set to the left at “EQ”. In the event you or a previous owner installed AGMs instead, the dip switches are the same except number 3 is off rather than on, and the equalizer is set right to “FL” (float charge); at least that’s the book on our Monterey. The Temp Comp switch is to the left in both cases.
Joel
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Not sure if they are still made. I saw a couple used ones for sale on web.
Steve
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You might call AM Solar in Springfield Or for a replacement solar controller. They were involved w/Helio originally, so they can offer a replacement, or tech help.
Happy Easter!
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The HelioTrope was actually made by AM Solar before hasn't been made in years and is seriously outdated with minimum adjustablity. If I were you Id just replace it. AM solar as much as told me so when I inquired some years ago. There are several good makers out there. Morningstar , Blue sky etc.
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Bob,
Sounds like the controller is not working. Check to see that the switches are in the correct positions just in case. Manual is on web if you need it.
Steve
Re checked the switches. All are correctly set. (I noted that, although the coach had AGM’s when I bought it, the House switch had been set to EQ mode).
Forgive my confusion, but I still don’t understand all I know about this thing. When I take a voltage measurement at the “Solar” terminals, am I reading the voltage level of the panels? When I first rechecked the reading yesterday, it read 23.7 V (same as the Aladdin). 20 minutes later, the reading was 3.8 V (the Aladdin still said 23.7). Does the output of the panels vary that much? The light outside was unchanged.
And, Steve, when you say the controller may not be working, is it because I can’t seem to find any amperage anywhere ?
Thanks to all for your patience.
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Bob,
The solar +- terminals are the output of the solar panel(s). Assuming I understand the operation correctly, the voltage across those terminals should be relatively constant in bright sunlight. If it is varying as you say, I'd suspect a bad panel, an intermittent connection between the panel and the controller, or a problem in the controller that is dragging the voltage down. Try disconnecting the wires to the solar +- and measure the voltage across the wires. If it is a steady reading at 15v or higher (depending on sunlight), the panels /wiring is probably OK and the controller is the culprit.
Steve
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First, the variations in the voltage coming from the panels was due to a faulty volt meter (I should have never gone with the Fisher-Price model).
Once I started using a real volt meter, the actual voltage on the leads from the solar panels, whether connected or disconnected from the controller, are a consistent 24 volts in bright daylight.
I can’t figure out from the attached schematic, or anywhere else, whether this output voltage should be 12 volts, or 24 volts (i.e: in series or parallel).
The schematic appears to show four solar panels, but might only be two sections of two panels, by the way they’re wired.
Still confused.
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Bob,
Panels are in parallel. A solid 24v is what you should expect across the solar leads. The house and chassis battery leads should have about 13.2 V if the controller is working.
Steve
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Great news! (I think). Sounds like the panels and their connections are OK. Also, the controller is seeing correct voltages at the connections. The only problem is that there is no indication of current moving anywhere (including controller is cool to the touch). Really think the problem’s in the controller. More to follow.
Thanks again for the help. Drives me nuts until I can figure this stuff out....
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If the batteries are fully charged I wouldn’t think you’d see any current.
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I agree Joel. But Aladdin has never shown any amps, regardless of the state of charge, which has been quite low on occasion. (Dry campers need blended margaritas too!)
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Thanks Steve. I bought a used Controller on line from Verone’s and just installed it.
With the old controller, the Aladdin read:
SOLAR: Volts 23.7 Amps: 0
HOUSE BAT: Volts 13.2 Amps 0
These readings were with the coach not plugged in and the generator not running. The batteries show float charging at 12.3volts No matter the state of charge, these numbers never changed .
With the new controller, the Aladdin reads:
SOLAR: Volts23.4 to 24.5. Amps:0
HOUSE BAT: Volts: 12.3 to 15.5 Amps: 1-2
Although the Solar Amps still read “0”, the other readings are now constantly changing. Still not sure why Solar shows 0 Amps, even though House Bat shows a 1-2 amp current. Still seems like an improvement.
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Bob, How many panels do you have? I have one 100w panel on my 05 PT. Multiple panels in parallel will add their voltages, ie, 4x24v panels in parallel will read 96v at the controller input!!
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Correction, In parallel, current adds, voltage stays the same. My bad!!
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There are two panels on the roof. Together, the put out ~24 volts at the controller.
The confusion (mostly in my mind) arose becaus the above schematic on the 2006 Marquis Wiring Diagram shows four panels, each identified as “AM100 (RV98U)”. The 4 panels are connected to each other in parallel, by 12/2 cables at a “combiner” which then ships the power by red and black 8ga wires to the controllers.
The 2006 brochure, and my build sheet, both show 2 100 watt panels. Nether shows additional panels as options, so who knows. in any event, as you say, the number of solar panels would not change the voltage, which must be a max of 24 volts each.
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Bob, Are you going to replace your controller to see if that fixes it?
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Yes Bill, I replaced it. It seems to have made a difference. Mostly, the voltage and amperage readings on the Aladdin electrical screen are now updating where, with the old controller, they were frozen. As noted above, the Amp reading on the Solar line still reads “0”, but the Amp readout on the House Bat line now shows 1 or 2 amps charging with everything unplugged and turned off.
I’m wondering, though, whether anyone else ever gets a positive amperage reading On the Solar line?
The voltage on the Solar line now updates regularly from around the current state of charge shown on the Magnum (around 12.7 volts) up to as much as 16 volts, at times.
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Hi yes there is a solar current sensor for the Aladdin (at least in mine) I read both positive voltage and current. I would check the calibration in the Aladdin and verify the sensor is on the wire. You would need a DC current meter to calibrate this. Please note that many of the "clip on " current meters do NOT read DC current. A must for this calibration. The sensor is a small ring around the solar panel wires with a single wire attached. Let me know if you need the Aladdin calibration stuff. Good luck
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Thanks Jim. I had a suspicion that I have two problems with this system. I’ll check the ring.
Are the current numbers on the solar line and House Bat line the same when everything is off (i.e. No additional drain or charge source)? If I’m seeing things right, the Amp reading on the Solar line is how much current is moving from the panels into the controller, and the Amp reading on the House Bat line measures the current on the back end from the controller into the batteries. Is this correct?
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Bob, If your rig is plugged into shore power, then you won't see current going to the batteries from the solar, as the battery voltage is high enough to indicate that no charge is needed. Try disconnecting from shore power for a few hours, and watch to see if the solar current starts going up. On my Beaver, my 'idle current' is about 8 amps, so it shouldn't take too long for you to see some current from the solar. Of course, don't allow your gen to kick on during this test.
Let us know how it goes........
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In answer to your question, maybe. If you are reading 22 v it looks like they wired it to give you the solar panel output it the controller rather than the controller output to the batteries, so current reading would be less on the solar side than on the battery side. The controller, if of good quality, should be converting the 22v from the solar panels to around 14v to charge the batteries. So as voltage goes down current would go up less any loss in the controller. (power = (voltage x current)-controller loss)
If the coach is drawing 12v current from the house batteries and the inverter charger is off and the coach engine or generator is off I would suspect that you should see some current on the solar side (daytime). Also to remember, is that as the controller is able to use more of the power supplied by the panels voltage will go down and current will go up. I just grabbed a genneric 100 wand attached the data sheet. On page 2 you will see a I-V curve. ( current voltage) so if you are seeing 22v there would be no demand for currrent by the controller on the system and the solar current on the aladdin should be zero.
Hopefully this will help rather than getting into the weeds.
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Excellent, Jim. Perhaps I won’t see any current on the Solar side until the batteries are a little more depleted. If I understand, the presence of around 23-4 volts at the panel indicates that the controller isn’t placing any demand for current on the panels.
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Yes assuming all is operating, calibrated and connected. But remember, the inverter charger, when generator or shore is connected is also pushing power to charge the batteries unless it is shut off.
Best Jim
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I did remember, Jim. I ran the house batteries down to a Reading on the Magnum of 11.7 Volts. At this point, still no Amperage showing on the Solar line, but the House Bat line is showing 2amps charging, with all possible other charging sources turned off. Can't help but think this is the controller working. Some current may also be going to the chassis batteries, but no way to tell without one of those current detectors, which I can't sell to the Finance Director. (About this time each year, after a winter's worth of repairing stuff I broke during the summer, there reaches a point when she gets tired of seeing the steady stream of eBay and Amazon boxes showing up on the front porch ;D).
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I know the AMAZON pain as well. Going through the same thing myself. We will be going to Gillette and Farmington this year as the plans currently set. I carry a meter with me that would work. If you are going to either let me know and we can take a look at it. Jim
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Thanks, Jim
Still planning Summer 2018, although I’ve shown an amazing ability to be at the opposite end of the country during BAC events.
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Here is a good meter, I just bought one to measure DC current. Its a Uni-t ut210, in case the link doesn't work. Compact, rugged, good sturdy probes. About $40 on Amazon, or half that on EBay.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019Q6YK7W/ref=asc_df_B019Q6YK7W5435902/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B019Q6YK7W&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198075247191&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17584752325044571247&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032602&hvtargid=pla-350485831193 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019Q6YK7W/ref=asc_df_B019Q6YK7W5435902/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B019Q6YK7W&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198075247191&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17584752325044571247&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032602&hvtargid=pla-350485831193)
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Hi Jim,
Just finalized enough of Summer 2018 to be able to commit to Gillette. Looking forward to meeting you and others on the Forum then!
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It’s hard to beat the quality of a Fluke instrument. Though I have a Craftsman clampmeter, its relatively low material quality recently meant an aggravating failure right when I really needed it. An hour of disassembly and reassembly got it back to work, but the event led me to research more reputable replacement possibilities.
Of course that usually comes at a cost, but how much is my time and blood pressure worth? I haven’t ordered it yet, but a few weeks ago put this one on my wait list for when another event or my CFO or both incentivize it’s purchase:
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/inen/electrical-testers/clamp-meters/fluke-362.htm?PID=74568
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XvaBVQoaH-E
It’ll do what I need it to, likely be there when I need it, and is one of the less costly of the Fluke options.
The Southwire 14070T is a quality built and very accurate meter too, but isn’t a clamp style; you have to put its leads in-line between power source and draw source in order to get a current (amp) reading. Though clamp style ammeters may not be as precisely accurate, for most of our needs their ease of use dictates their advantage.
Joel