BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Jason Worman on September 24, 2018, 02:09:39 AM
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So we have a Freedom 458 inverter charger. We are plugged in fulltime with 50 amp service where I work. Do we needed the charger on 24/7? I see there is a on/off switch, under which,circumstances would we need to turn on and off and do we leave it on while driving?
Thanks
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Jason,
The inverter based charger will only work when the inverter is connected to a 110V source, i.e. shore power or generator. When driving, w/o the generator running, the batteries are being charged by the engine alternator. As far as leaving it on while plugged in, your charger should automatically switch from bulk to absorb to float charging status as the batteries become full charged. At the float level, the charger is only supplying 5A or less so it doesn't represent a very big load. The inverter is probably pulling more than that w/o the charger. If you don't need the inverter running when in storage, you can rely on the solar charger (trickle charger) to keep the batteries minimally charged. However, after a period of storage, I'd recommend using the boost switch to start the generator and let it run about 5 minutes before starting the engine (again use the boost switch) and keep the generator running for at least 30 minutes to reduce the load on the alternator.
Steve
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Except for a few weeks, we have had our coach parked in our house's driveway since returning home from Yuma in March. During this period of over 5 months, the coach has been plugged into 50 amp shore power. We periodically check the two battery banks' status at the Aladdin screen and Xantrex Freedom 3000w inverter remote panel, and we top-off the six house batteries with distilled water every few months. Since installing the Xantrex a few years ago, it has never been turned off that I know of. Both battery banks have shown 13.3v to 13.7v at all times while plugged into shore power.
By the way, I use a 1-gallon garden sprayer to fill the house batteries with distilled water. The sprayer has made that job MUCH easier and quicker.
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Thanks for the tip about filling the batteries using a spray bottle. I have a another question, the house batteries need replacing, they were left dry and not taken care of, while plugged into shore power they read a constant 11.5 volts. Is having bad batteries hard on the charger? They have charged as high as 13.0 volts after driving quite some distance but once unhooked from shore power the charge immediately drops to around the 11.5 mark. Thanks
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Jason,
Bad batteries can damage the charger. Replace them before you have to replace the inverter/charger.
Steve
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Jason, David’s trick probably works fine in some trays. But in certain configurations, like mine, where you have to put your face in close and use a penlight to see the water levels, spray might not be particularly a safe way. Consider getting a filler such as this https://weldwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?::1:WLDWH:1:570=75-030 that many of us use. It’s easier than my old way of using a battery tester or turkey baster, and it automatically stops water flow when each cell is full.
A pair of safety glasses is a good idea as well; in my 20’s I once splashed just a smidge of acid in an eye while handling auto batteries as a store stockboy. It was no fun and a hard lesson. The Plews filler mitigates that hazard since you don’t have to get your face so much in harm’s way to know when a cell is full. There are many styles and makes of filler out there, so shop around and check local auto parts stores... the link provided is simply an example and not necessarily the best deal. But I can testify the Plews brand is decent quality.
Joel
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$5 at Walmart. I don't have the nozzle on spray. I twist the tip to make a tight stream, don't over-pressurize the sprayer and don't pull the trigger such that it throws a hard and fast stream.
With my battery tray extended, I can stand up straight and look down at a 45-degree angle to see into the back batteries' cells. Now the hardest part of the job is taking off/replacing the battery caps and sliding that heavy tray back into its storage position. My batteries have the 3-cap, half-twist device so each battery's 3 caps come off together in one twist... makes it quick and easy!
https://www.walmart.com/ip/RL-Flo-Master-1-Gallon-Sprayer/13376324?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227009419045&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40471888592&wl4=aud-273067695102:pla-60819427646&wl5=9033202&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=13376324&wl13=&veh=sem&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlqLdBRCKARIsAPxTGaXj9Q0fyz4QLMUqGG7NUIFq9DXC9U-eqW6aBAqv-UH75MG4K3vJaKcaAjCzEALw_wcB
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Thanks, I'm getting the batteries replaced tomorrow at our local Les Scwab
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Jason,
Your problem does not sound like bad batteries. It sounds like your inverter is not charging properly. Even with bad batteries, the inverter should be charging at a voltage much above 11.5 volts unless it is maxed out on amps, and then you would have a bad heat problem in the house battery bank from a cell short circuit.
I would have the batteries checked before replacement, and only use a true deep cycle battery, like a 6 volt golf cart battery if replacement is necessary. Never use a 12 volt cranking battery as a house battery.
Gerald
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Thanks, the batteries are 12 years old. The RV tech came several months ago when we purchased the rig and found that the batteries were dry and also that one battery cable was broken and not even connected. He fixed the cable, filled batteries and said to see what happens. The batteries will charge up, but once we disconnect from shore power, immediately drop to 10.5 volts. If I turn inverter off and the on, it charges at 12.5 volts. Once it reads batteries are full, it goes into float mode and batteries immediately drop to 11.5 volts. It will kick back on and begin charging. Even when alternator is charging at almost 14 volts, once we stop, the batteries immediately drop to 10.5 volts. I will make sure they are true deep cycle batteries. I believe I saw you in some of the recent rally photos and look forward to meeting you at some point.
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The house batteries are currently Trojan brand series 27D . Are these even the correct kind of batteries? If you could call me that would be great, I'm here on the Oregon Coast-
541-707-7415. Thanks
Jason
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Jason,
A BCI group size 27 battery is a 12 volt battery, and there are few battery manufacturers who make it in a true deep cycle 12 volt battery. Trojan is one of those companies, and your old Trojan batteries are a true deep cycle battery as are all Trojan batteries. However, Trojan batteries other than the standard 6 volt golf cart battery a usually hard to find and expensive. So unless you are willing to rewire your house batteries to use 6 volt batteries, you will probably need to look a little to locate true deep cycle 12 volt batteries like the Trojans you currently have. Just do not use cranking batteries, even the "dual purpose" marine batteries that you commonly find a stores like Les Schwab will not work as a house battery because repeated discharging and recharging will destroy them.
Gerald
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Thank, there was more to this than I realized. Will hold off on getting new batteries
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You were right, did some checking online and they are a bit expensive and hard to have shipped in, will probably go back to dealer that installed these. Thank you
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Gerald,
Sorry about my endless questions. I read the manual that came with inverter and watched a youtube video about the inverter, but I am still confused. So when hooked up to shore power, you need the invert and charge buttons on the remote on correct? Or is it either inverting or charging at the same time or does it do one or the other? The charger is charging at 13.5 volts. The charger shows the battery as full, but the command center shows it at only 11.5 volts and fair condition. It's so confusing to me. Nothing like being a total newbie. Thank you.
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Yes they should both be turned on at the remote. Yes they can both be on at the same time. I think you need to make sure your batteries are good before you continue. If you don't the conflicting info will drive you nuts. Have someone load test the batteries. Then you will at least have a good point to start troubleshooting. You've already been told by a tech that your batteries are bad. Sounds like a good place to start. Good luck.
Jerry
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Jason, referring to Gerald's comments, if it is at all feasible the best thing for your coach would be to go with four 6v deep cycles for your house batteries. They have more overall amp-hour capacity than 12 volt ones. But you have to have room for 4 and will need the rewiring for a combination of series and parallel. That should be done by someone familiar with your coach.
My batteries are 12 years old also and mostly shot... my solar and inverter chargers don't know what to make of it, the solar is constantly bulk charging (boiling off water) because the voltage never gets over 12... good bats and charge systems should stabilize and float at 13.3-13.5v. 12 years is extremely unusual and most people are lucky to get to 8 years, if that. As Jerry alludes to, your main issue is aged-out house batteries. Like Steve recommended, deal with that first before worrying about charging possibilities.
That said, and you can find someone with the expertise to rewire and install them, if you are willing to toad trip inland to Eugene or up to Astoria with your old batteries in hand for core exchange value, one of the better 6v Interstate golf cart battery deals is at Costco. As Gerald noted, you'll have a time getting 12v deep cycles anywhere, wet cell or not.
Joel
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They came with the coach, unfortunately(and my greeness) the previous owner showed me receipt for all new batteries being replaced in 2016, but in reality, those must have been removed and these clunkers put in there place. Will start by getting new batteries and then go from there.
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They may have indeed been new in 2016. But a bad inverter or some other charger may have done them in already. Even one battery with a bad cell can in time ruin the set. The problem is you can't know if you have a bum inverter charger until good bats are in place to work with and test the system.
Joel
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Jason,
Take a volt meter and verify that the house batteries are really at 13.5 volts. Then check the voltage for your chassis batteries, The original command center may be defective or it may be reading the chassis batteries. If the chassis batteries are at about 11.5 volts, we will assume that the command center is reading the chassis batteries, and you need to repair or install a charging source for them. The inverter only charges the house batteries unless you have an Echo Charger or a "BIRD" system. Your coach may not have either one because it has a mechanically injected engine that is no bad about discharging the chassis batteries through the ECM (engine control module). If the house batteries read 13.5 volts and the chassis batteries read above 12.5 volts, just assume that your command center is inaccurate and ignore the battery voltage portion.
Gerald
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I took out voltage meter and tested both batteries. Chasis battery test at 13.6 volts, it was replaced 2 months ago. The house batteries took some time to test because they were wired in sequence. Each one tested at 10.8-11.2 volts. I forgot to mention when we first bought coach we had to start it by using the boost start button, eventually it would not start at all. Replaced the chasis battery and has started perfect ever since. Getting new batteries today and then going to check charger/inverter. Its 12 years old.
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I went to get batteries and after examining them, techs realized I need the true deep cycle batteries, these will take 3 weeks to get. We left and dumped tanks drove for an hour or so and parked. When I parked batteries showed 10.5 volts, we sat several hours at the beach. When we came back and I turned on panel, voltage was now 12.9, with engine running it jumped to 13.3. I am wondering If panel, charger, and system need to be looked at. Techs confirmed house batteries are bad. After parking here at Winchestet Bay for 30 minutes and no load on system, batteries have dropped to 12 volts.