Author Topic: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning  (Read 6323 times)

David Stump

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Thanked: 1 times
Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« on: August 10, 2021, 02:16:50 AM »
Hey gang!  I hope somebody has some insight to an issue I am having.

Randomly upon start up I get check engine dash lights flashing.  The Aladdin engine screen shows zero oil pressure.  the oil pressure gauge on the dash shown normal oil pressure.  Engine runs and sounds normal. 

The first time it happened I shut down immediately and walked back to recheck the oil then re-started.  Upon restart the check engine light was no longer flashing and the Aladdin system showed normal oil pressure.  It did the same thing a week or so later so i just shut down and restarted and all was fine.  I drove a few thousand miles over the next month or so with no issues and thought it was a random kind of thing.  Today the issue is back.  same sequence of events.  Restarted and all is fine. 

Obviously I have a problem.

Where does Aladdin receive oil pressure info from?
Are there two sending units?  One for Aladdin and one for the dash guage?  If not why two different readings?  (I don't believe for a minute that the oil pressure is actually zero)
It seems that wherever the Aladdin gets its info from seems to be the source that triggers the warning system lights.
Thus far the issue only happens on initial start up but I am concerned that if it would happen on the road the engine would derate and/or shut down depending on how Beaver has programmed the engine.

Any thoughts?


2006 Monterey Laguna IV
C9 400hp

Richard Davis

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 210
  • Thanked: 86 times
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2021, 03:59:55 AM »
David
Yes!  There are two sending units.  They are both located close together midway on the passenger side of the engine.  You either have a failing sending unit, or an intermittent electrical failure from the sending unit.  Rest assured that the C9 (as a HEUI motor) will shut down completely if it has no oil pressure since it uses the engine oil as hydraulic pressure to fire the injectors.  So, you need to chase down which sender is causing the problem and replace it (or correct it's intermittent failed connection). 
Good luck.  Richard 
06 Monterey Ventura IV, C9 400 hp
The following users thanked this post: David Stump

Eric Maclean

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Thanked: 446 times
  • Karen and I would like to wish you all happy trail
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2021, 01:01:32 PM »
David
Yes There are two oil pressure sending unit s however the one you are looking for is the Cat supplied oil pressure sensor it is the cone that reposts to the engines ECM and it is the ECM which turns on the check engine light ( the Aladin also picks up it's information from the ECM)

The oil pressure sensor is located on the lower passenger side of the block as stated earlier
I have included a link to a diagram point out the location of the sensors.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cat+c9+oil+pressure+sensor+location&oq=cat+c9+oil+pressure+sensor&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j69i57j0i22i30j0i390l2.15222j0j8&client=tablet-android-lenovo-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=SkID5EXPXcRQrM

Hope this helps Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.
The following users thanked this post: David Stump

David Stump

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2021, 02:41:54 PM »
Thanks guys!
I will attempt to locate the sensor this morning.  Have to figure out if it is a "through the bedroom closet hatch access or up from the garage floor nightmare"  haha  Hopefully the local Cat dealer can get me the sending unit so I can at least have it on hand. 
2006 Monterey Laguna IV
C9 400hp

Richard Davis

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 210
  • Thanked: 86 times
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2021, 04:23:23 PM »
David
You cannot reach the senders down from the top.  You can reach them from the bottom, but it is a bit of a stretch.  If memory serves me correctly, I had to remove a bracket or two and and move hoses and wiring out of the way.  In my case it was the other sender.  I had good pressure on the Alladin with no pressure showing on the dash gauge.  The senders are a bit pricey, I paid somewhere just short of a $100 for it.
Good luck!  Richard
06 Monterey Ventura IV, C9 400 hp
The following users thanked this post: David Stump

David Stump

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2021, 10:43:42 PM »
I hear you but WOW!  Went over early this morning to see what sort of job it is going to be.  i did not even successfully see it.  tried through the bedroom hatches, then underneath...the starter pretty much takes all the space between block and frame.  Even opened the battery compartment door and could MAYBE spot the non-cat sensor but could not reach from there anyway.  On the plus side my local Cat dealer has the sensor and both required o rings in stock for 170.  May just have to let them install it.
2006 Monterey Laguna IV
C9 400hp

David Stump

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2021, 11:09:37 PM »
Can anybody confirm that a failure of the Cat oil sensor WILL NOT trigger derate or shutdown of the engine.  The Cat operator manual says it will not but another section of the manual says that the builder can program it another way?  I am planning on a trip this week and wont be able to schedule in for replacement until later this month.  Trying to calculate risk...
Thanks!
2006 Monterey Laguna IV
C9 400hp

Eric Maclean

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Thanked: 446 times
  • Karen and I would like to wish you all happy trail
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2021, 04:04:50 PM »
David
Most engines are set up to derate and shut down when oil pressure is lost to protect the engine itself from damage.
The HUEI engines require oil pressure to feed the HUEI high pressure pump for the injectors without it it won't run.
However you may want to give Dave Atherton your serial number and see what he can tell you about your specific engines programming wheather it does derate or not.

I'd hate to see you stuck at the side of the road or worse yet require an expensive tow call over a bad oil pressure sensor.

Eric
« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 04:17:01 PM by Eric Maclean »
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.
The following users thanked this post: David Stump

Eric Maclean

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Thanked: 446 times
  • Karen and I would like to wish you all happy trail
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2021, 04:18:33 PM »
David
How'd you make out did you get it fixed ??
Let us know
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.
The following users thanked this post: David Stump

Joel Ashley

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2348
  • Thanked: 803 times
  • OSU Class of '73, Oregon Native. RVing 39 years
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2021, 10:52:52 PM »
I’m not familiar with the oil sensors, but just from what David initially said it sounds like he should have no worry about his trip(s).  My viewpoint is that the Aladdin is a “convenience” add-on Beaver/Monaco system and not the primary CAT reporting one.  If his instrument panel gauge consistently shows proper pressure, I wouldn’t expect a derate.   

Before replacing sensors, if it were me I’d preliminarily be checking the CAT ECM to Aladdin controller data connectors.  I’ve not accessed it personally but have been advised that the controller is behind the front panel of the cabinet over the driver’s street side window, right where summer solar heat on the upper cap can be an issue for any components unfortunate enough to be located up there, and where water leaks have been known to occur.

By its behavior (Aladdin reports fine upon restart) I’d be suspicious of a poor wiring connection in the Aladdin screen/sensor/ECM routing.  There are two diagrams for the Aladdin in the ‘06 Monterey Wiring Diagrams book in Coach Assist.  It only shows an engine data connector and its controller port, but not where it goes - I’d assume a port on the ECM, but you fellows indicate a separate oil pressure sensor for the Aladdin, which leaves me clueless, although Eric indicates the Aladdin is indeed getting its oil pressure data from the ECM;  so what is the other sensor that’s mentioned? 

If all other engine parameters show good on his Aladdin and there’s a separate oil pressure data system for it, then yes, the culprit has likely been zeroed in on prior to my wasting readers’ time herein.

Joel

« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 10:59:11 PM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
The following users thanked this post: David Stump

Eric Maclean

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Thanked: 446 times
  • Karen and I would like to wish you all happy trail
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2021, 12:30:57 AM »
The second sensor is for the dash and or service bay gauge
My coach being older and having a Cat 3126 doesn't have an Aladin system it does have the block mounted sensor for the ECM and it has a hose which runs over to the frame where it tees off for two gauge sending units one for the dash gauge and one for the service bay gauge.
It also has the older Magnum intela drive system that shows engine data which it gets from the ECM via remote located diagnostic connector at the dash area.
It's my understanding that all of the engine related data that the Aladdin displays come from the serial stream data communications provided from the ECM which would be the Cat oil pressure sensor for the ECM  mounted on the engine block.
It's not uncommon for the Cat oil pressure sensor to go south and be intermittent but the real question is will the cat ECM and  derate the engine in an effort to protect the engine if the sensor tell it there little or no oil pressure.
The reason I say that is the engine Protection mode can be turn on or off in the ECM programing ( it requires someone with Cat ET and a Cat service Password to do it) so it may or may not have been enabled at the factory. I highly doubt they'd let it leave the factory that way.

Joel you may be right as it could be a communication break between the Cat ECM and the Aladdin the best way to tell is to connect using Cat ET to the diagnostic connector and see what the ECM is seeing.
You would think at the very least if the ECM sensor where to tell the ECM it had low pressure the ECM would set a low oil
Pressure code. And turn on the MIL ( check engine) lamp.

I still think where looking at a bad Cat oil pressure sensor because that's the only thing that will cause the ECM to set a code and turn on the MIL / check engine light in conjunction with the Aladdin info .the best way to know is to check the ECM codes

Eric
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 01:22:44 AM by Eric Maclean »
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.
The following users thanked this post: David Stump

Steve Huber Co-Admin

  • Administrator Group
  • *
  • Posts: 3511
  • Thanked: 2694 times
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2021, 09:48:22 PM »
David,
Don't make the assumption that the flashing check engine light and the 0 oil pressure readout on the Aladdin are connected. May not be the case unless you can get a code readout that confirms it. As Joel suggested, your symptoms sound more like an intermittent Aladdin connection. If the dash gauge is showing good pressure the engine is getting proper oil pressure.
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp
The following users thanked this post: David Stump

Bob Disney

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 107
  • Thanked: 30 times
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2022, 01:04:56 AM »
Opening an old thread
so much good info I thought it best to resurrect it
On our C9 we have a  intermittent fluctuation on the Aladdin display screen sometimes it shows twice what the oil pressure on the dash shows, sometimes it shows the same as the dash gauge and sometimes it shows 0
would that be a short, a break in the wiring or a bad sensor or possibly a loose connection 
The dash gauge works correctly all the time
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 03:40:52 PM by Bob Disney »
2005 Monterey Ventura IV
(the Beave)
just fits in the 40' shed
400hp C9 Cat
Towing various old Jeeps

Eric Maclean

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Thanked: 446 times
  • Karen and I would like to wish you all happy trail
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2022, 01:48:28 AM »
Bob
The first place to start is to verify the Cat sensor with a scan tool  ( Cat E T software)
And compare those readings with the Aladin.

Odds are a bad Cat sensor but could be connections or wiring or even problems with the Aladin communication issues.
The only way to know is to check it out looking for cooked wiring with brittle insulation or green corroded connections .
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Dave Atherton

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1015
  • Thanked: 877 times
Re: Cat C9 low oil pressure intermittant warning
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2022, 04:26:28 AM »
Gentlemen, I would suggest first looking at the check valves on engine oil cooler, there is a spring and a plastic poppet on the top and bottom of oil cooler. Reason there is a caterpillar bulletin for update
On the spring and plastic poppet assembly. Note this would give the problem of which is occurring
at present.  Dave atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
The following users thanked this post: Joel Ashley