Understanding Our FW System

[Dick Simonis]

It seems that every time I turn around some new little idiosyncrasy pop up.  Today it's the FW system.  Here is what I've figured out.

1) DO NOT FILL THE TANK WHILE WIFE IS IN SHOWER!!!!!  I had thought that if the FW pump was running there would be ample flow and pressure.  This was a rather large logic malfunction.

2) If you fill the FW tank and allow it to overflow, for some reason you only end up with 50% of the tank level.  I have to think there is some sort of siphoning that occurs.

3)  It takes a looooong time to fill the FW tank.

4)  I don't understand why the FW pumps seems to run continuously when the tank fill valve is in the fill position.

5)  Any thing else I should know???

Any insight on these matters would be greatly appreciated.  The assistance I've recieved from members of the forum has been exceptionally valuble.

Thanks.

Dick and Pat

[LEAH DRAPER]

4)  I don't understand why the FW pumps seems to run continuously when the tank fill valve is in the fill position.


TURN THE WTR PUMP OFF WHILE FILLING!!!   THEN IT WON'T RUN

[Edward Buker]

Dick,

We have found on our coach that when we fill the water tank, using the solenoid valve, that some air does get into the pump line. Not sure how. If we are tied to a pressurized city water connection we also find that it will not clear itself and the pump will run excessively, never being able to clear the air and satisfy the pressure cut off level. We use the pump in conjunction with the city water supply to augment the slow flow rates at the kitchen sink. What we need to do, once the tank is sufficiently filled, is turn off the city water pressure feed, turn on the pump and the air will then clear with a faucet open when it is not working against city water pressure. You just need to do this right after you fill...

Filling the tank does take awhile given the flow rate and the size of the tank which I think is around 100 gallons. I believe your pump is running due to being air bound.  It is not clearing working against city water pressure and it is best to turn the pump off while filling.

The 50% level indication is most likely an uncalibrated sensor or a sensor malfunction. Can you visually see the level in the tank through any access panel? If this is due to siphoning you would be dropping 50 gallons on the ground which seems like you would redily see that and did not mention excessive water on the ground.

If you fill the tank with your wife in the shower you do that at your own risk. You are a braver man than I...

Later Ed

[Jerry Carr]

Dick, I have an 06 PT, on our rig I fill the tank with the top fill method not through the supply auto fill.


The auto fill is a very small line and would take a long time to fill your tank. Your water pump need to be off regardless.


If you have the same system as ours the fill cap is located at the top of the service panel and you can fill the tank

in about 5 min, if you have a good supply I still use an in line filter on the hose to keep good water in the tank.


We will dump the FW tank before every other fill unless we have a good city water supply then we will keep the water

for a few weeks. I have 3 filters in our system plus the one on the supply hose.    

[Dick Simonis]

Well, if I have a top fill it has yet to be discovered....as with a lot of other stuff I reckon.

I'm still not sure why the water pump doesn't run when filling but the air bubble sounds as good as anything elsce.

A big plus is that Pat seems to have forgiven the lack of cold water in the shower....at least I think so.

Today, I filled the tank to 100% on the meter but without allowing any overflow so I know the gage works.  Something must act as a siphon once it overflows and just contiues to dump water.  I'll look into it a bit more thourghly later but at least I'm making forward progress.

[Gerald Farris]

Dick,
Your coach's fresh water tank can only be filled with the pressurized city water inlet. There is no manual or top fill for your tank since the tank is mounted between the frame rails above your basement.  

There were several Patriots that had a problem with the fresh water tank siphoning through the vent pipe if the tank was filled to the point of overflow because of the way that the vent is mounted in the tank. The siphoning can be corrected by removing the vent pipe and installing an air vent at it's highest point, but I think that it is more trouble than it is worth.

As for the pump running when you are filling the tank, that is normal. The fill valve is in the pressure line that exits the pump and when opened it routes water to the suction side of the pump as leaves the fresh water tank. So when you open the fill valve with the pump on, it is just pumping the water in a circle and can never build enough pressure to turn off. If the pump is running when you are filling the tank, it will increase the fill time substantially. The bottom line is always turn off the pump when filling the tank and only fill it when water pressure is not needed in the coach.    

Gerald  

[Keith Moffett]

What Gerald is saying seems to be right at least as far as our Patriot is concerned.  I might add that I have over filled a couple of times and so found the vent pipe.  Yes it created a siphon and drained half of the tank.  I was able to break the siphon the second time by pulling the drain handle for just a few seconds.  That time it onle lost 10 %.

Gerald:  If you are going to continue being right about our coaches, I suggest you be made the official customer support department and recieve a stipend from Monaco.  Ten dollars for every right answere?  Youre rich!  

Keith

[LarryNCarolynShirk]

You may try removing the right angle fitting to which the overflow drain line is attached.  Drill a small hole in the top of the elbow and reinstall.  There is no water pressure on the elbow, but the hole can let air in to break the syphon, similar to opening the drain vent to let air in to the tank.  If you do not like it, you can always patch the hole.  I did that to my '98 Patriot and it did help.

Larry

[Dick Simonis]

I like that, just add a vacuum break should help.  Is it accessible?

Dick

[Jerry Carr]

Well by 2006 the folks at Beaver must have heard the FW complaints about the water fill! The 06 units have both Auto Fill and a Manual Fill this is the best method to fill the FW tank and since its at the top of the tank we don't have any problem with a siphon action. FYI I know that some of our members have added a fill to the tanks perhaps they can share this information with the forum.  

[LarryNCarolynShirk]

In 1998, I started nagging Beaver to add a gravity fill to the fresh water tank to no avail.  Shortly after Monaco took over, that change took place.  That is one thing Monaco did right.

The vacuum break is accessible, if you can crawl under the rig.

Larry

[Joel Ashley]

There is no manual fill on our '06 Monterey, Jerry, so the change didn't apply to all models.  Siphoning has not been a problem on our design, but a manual fill port would have made "spring sanitizing" easier.  Not to get too far off Dick's topic, but the lack of a manual fill dictated that I had to create my own method of adding bleach through the city water attachment;  the old method of filling the hose with bleach was clumsy and hoses don't like bleach.

-Joel