97 Patriot 37’ - how many shocks?

[Giovanni Bosch]

Hello. I order some shocks (4) online and the company just called to confirm that I only needed 4 and not 8. I have a Magnum chassis with 8 air bags and was under there yesterday inspecting the bags but I think I only saw 4 shocks. 2 front and 2 back.

I looked through all the documents available via this forum and can’t find anything on this. It speaks about shocks in the Magnum manual but not how many. I told them to just send the 4 Koni FSD shocks and when I return home next week I’ll double check on the rest.

Any idea?

[Eric Maclean]

Giovanni
The 1997 and earlier patriots were built with only 2 shocks per axle , somewhere near the end of the 1997 model year Beaver/Safari decided to change their design to have 4 shocks per axle these where mounted at the ends of the lower H frame adjacent to the air bags.

On my coach and I assume from what your saying , the front shocks are located just above the front axle and are attached to the frame rail straight above the axle. The rear shocks are mounted just behind the rear axle

One of the reasons for the change was that the upper shock mounts where bolted through the upper frame rail with two bolts , unfortunately the shock was mounted about a foot outboard of the frame giving it a lot of leverage and the resulting leverage would work the frame rail until it cracked between the two bolt holes requiring frame rail crack repair and fish plateing to carry the stress.

These coaches came with Bilstein shocks and rode roughly as well as proposing on larger bumps such as the dips at the ends of over passes.
The switch to Koni FDS shocks will improve the harness on expansion cracks netting a smoother ride and a set of motion control units by Super Steer will solve the proposing problem.
The MCUs are expensive  and they call for one per air bag on both front and rear axles a total of 8 but I found just adding them to the front axle air bags 4 did the trick eliminating the proposing.
My coach is a 40 foot coach and it is my understanding that the shorter coaches suffered worse from proposing as the shorter coach doesn't  counter balance the engine weight hanging out past the rear axle.

https://supersteerparts.com/products/supersteer-sse5065-motion-control-unit-3-8-over-30-000-gvwr.html

Hope this helps
Eric

[Giovanni Bosch]

Thank you for the detailed information! I will look into the MCU’s supersteer is where I’m getting the shocks from I really like that they took the time to call and confirm with me.

When I go to the site and put in 1997 it doesn’t give me an option for Magnum chassis so it’s hard to find the right parts.

It doesn’t give much information how and where the MCU’s are installed. I’m certain my coach still has the original shocks so I will definitely feel a better ride with just changing the shocks. However, I wasn’t a better ride for my family.

[Giovanni Bosch]

I also noticed the upper mounting brackets being bolted to the frame. Is that something to be concerned about? I will inspect for stress and cracks. Are the nuts for the shocks metric? Where can I find torque values? Or should I use the German torque specs? Gut n tight. LOL

[Eric Maclean]

If memory serves me the shock bolts/nuts are 3/4 course and shoulder be a problem to get off and reuse.
Yes the german torque method works ( gud en tight ).

[Richard Good]

my 98 Patriot Ticonderoga on a Magnum chassis shows 8 shocks  installed in the manual. When I checked some years ago, lo and behold I discovered there were only 6 installed, 4 up front, but only 2 in the rear. I am not sure if anyone else has seen the same setup. Porpoising is a problem. I have read all the literature about shocks. My original Bilstein shocks test as good. I removed them thinking I would replace them, but tested them and they all tested fine, so I reinstalled them. I keep a good eye on traffic ahead and if I notice a big dip before or after a bridge, I slow by about 10mph and this eliminated most of the porpoising.

[Joel Ashley]

Only 2 rear shocks doesn’t sound right for any rig that heavy in the back and with duals, Richard.  I’d look into that further;  a previous owner may have done something ill-advised.  If you can get to our sponsor Henderson’s in Grants Pass, they can doubtless solve your issues.  But if you’re not coming West this year, search locally for a reputable shop.

Joel

[Richard Good]

Thanks, will do. I thought the same, but they were never installed. When I called Beaver Coach sales and service, they intimated that it was quite possible it only got made with 2 in the rear. I will certainly look into it when I move to BC and will be closer to Oregon.

[Eric Maclean]

Richard
The earlier Magnum chassis were built with only 2 shocks per axle which stressed the shock mounts heavily on the front the rears seemed to be ok
These coaches suffered from proposing which worked the front shocks too hard, the shorter the coach the worse the proposing.
Some where in the mid 1997 model year Safari moved the front shocks and add another 2 for a count of four shocks to the front axle by 1999 they had done the same to the rear axle this was done in an effort to try and reduce rebound on dips and control proposing . Although it helped it did not fix the problem
The problem is that the rear mounted engine works as a cantilever being behind the this is why the shorter/lighter coaches suffered the worst from it
Years ago there was talk about adding extra weight to the front of these coaches to help and I'm sure it did but today there is a simple if not cheap fix for the proposing by adding MCUs ( motion control units ) to the air lines feeding each air bag ,this controls the air movement going into or out of the air bags by limiting its velocity's and eliminates the proposing.
On my 40 ft coach I only installed the MCUs on the front four air bags and it completely cured the proposing
Super Steer calls for one for every air bag both front and rear but mine worked out well only doing the fronts.
The MCUs are sold by SuperSteer and are. Sold by Hendersons in grants pass.
You'll have to confirm your air line size but I think these are the right ones
You simply cut the air line as near the air bag as you can within a foot is good and insert the MCU into the line they have push to fit connections

https://supersteerparts.com/products/supersteer-sse5065-motion-control-unit-3-8-over-30-000-gvwr.html

It's also a good idea to weigh your coach and adjust the tire pressures according to the tire load chart for that tire.
If your up for a noticable difference in ride the Koni FDS shocks  make a difference as well helping get rid of some of the harshness on expansion joints

While your under there check your front shock mounts at the frame they sometimes will have cracked the frame around their bolt mounting holes in the frame.

Hope this helps
Eric

[Carl Boger]

Richard,

My coach can pretty much verify what Eric just pointed out.  My 1998 is a 33 foot MH, or 34 feet in reality, so the shortest of the Patriot coaches.  I have 4 shocks on the front and two on the rear.  Two of the front shocks are obviously add on's, maybe from the factory, or maybe from a high quality fabricator.  I have the two original shock positions located  behind the front tires and two more vertical shocks that are moved in toward the center and that are in front of the tires.

When I got the MH it had a harsh ride and then porpoised badly on one stretch on the way home.  So I replaced all 8 air bags, found and fixed a crack in the frame at the rear frame strut mount.  I also replaced the 6 shocks.   I also put on 6 new tires.  I also put on air tabs at this time figuring they were cheap enough to give them a try.  The ride was much better and the porpoising has not happened since then.  The push from Tractor Trailers was also reduced to almost nothing for the few trucks that pushed me at all.

Later I added the supersteer motion control units on all 8 airbags.  I believe that they were worth the money as side to side movement turning out of driveways was greatly reduced. 

I am still tweaking the handling and still have a slight pull to the right even though it was recently aligned.  It is no longer a handful to drive and is easy to keep up with traffic.  All the worn components will lead to poor handling.  I believe that my coach may have been one of the first to be modified to 6 shocks.  I have 4 Koni and 2 Monroe truck shocks.   Hopefully this will give you some information to make a decision on how to repair yours.

[Joel Ashley]

A thank you to Eric and Carl for clarifying the coach build of those models.  I would also promote the motion control devices, as Henderson's added those to our coach when I did their road test program and upgraded to Koni shocks, had a Safe-T-Plus put on to counter wander and any tire blow out, and they tweaked the steering. 

Though also relatively short at <37', ours is a bit different coach than yours, Richard, and has 8 shocks, but the transformation was quite noticeable in both ride and handling.  In our case I had the MCU's put on all the way around;  I was determined to do all I could to approach the "Cadillac" ride and highway behavior that I'd always expected from a "luxury" coach.  Adding a Safe-T-Plus to our previous gas coach made a huge difference in handling wind and such (think Columbia Gorge), so for that and blow-out protection reasons I wanted one on Monty Rae.

The Henderson family is deeply into chassis technology, and built the SuperSteer products accordingly.  Beyond its club sponsorship and industry reputation, it's to be respected for its inherent honesty and true dedication to motor coach comfort and safety on the highway.  They regularly produce informative videos (monthly?) you can subscribe to, but here are three others of interest to anyone in Richard's or Giovanni's position:

Robert Henderson intro:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msU7AMgsOFk&t=50s

MCU basics:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpdMG40B4-w&t=6s

Self installing a Safe-T-Plus:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HC5-Mk3a44

-Joel