50 amp surge protector

[Keith Cooper]

Im only mentioning this as an alternative approach for placement of the surge protector. When we had problems with the power transfer relay in June I wired in a TRC surge protector on the shore power side of the 50A power transfer relay rather than the output.

[Gil_Johnson]

Keith, are you saying your transfer switch problems were a result of not having the surge and voltage protector on the input to the transfer switch?  It is true that my placement doesn't protect the the one electronic board in the transfer switch and your placement does.  Your placement doesn't protect the coach if there's a power problem with the generator.  FWIW, your placement is what TRC recommends.  I'm not sure if that recommendation is due to the fact that's the only place you can install their shore power plug-in version or that there's little liklihood that the generator can put out bad power.

You do bring up a decision the owner has to make on where, electrically, to install the surge and power protector.  Either placement protects the coaches systems from shore power problems.

Gil

[Joel Ashley]

The factory installed our Monterey's Surge Guard on the back wall of the cord reel compartment, so the cord runs immediately through the device before anything else.

Joel

[Keith Cooper]

Gil,
Low voltage at the pedistal can trigger failure in the power transfer circuitry.  if the voltage level drops far enough the contactor points will “chatter” and sustained contact chattering can and will cause damage.
Low voltage can be caused by low voltage conditions like an RV park with inadequate wiring or  crowded camper conditions where everyone’s electricity suffers (brownout). Low voltage may also be triggered by using an extension cord which is too long and too small for the load.
A spike in voltage can also trigger a failure in the time delay circuitry.

The problems we encountered in June were, i beleive, triggered by a low voltage  and a chatter condition in an older RV park.

[Gil_Johnson]

Keith, gotcha.  I need to look at the specs/features of the transfer switch.  I'm not aware of a timer on mine, but that seems reasonable.  Although relay chatter will lead to premature contact failure, my placement of the surge/voltage protection device should guarantee that there's no current load on a chattering relay.

I'd like to better understand the likilhood of generator related power problems that this device could protect against.  I'm always reminded of an Air Force comm site I ran in Turkey when we had a run away generator that raised the voltage to disasterous levels.

[Gerald Farris]

Gil,
I do not seen any likely hood of transfer switch failure from low voltage because the TRC Surge Guard will disconnect the power for 2 minutes and 15 seconds at any time there is low voltage and will not reconnect until voltage returns, so there will be no current flow through the transfer switch.

If you are in a park were the voltage is below 102V (the TRC disconnect point), you need to disconnect from shore power and move or run on your generator.

The location that you chose for your Surge Guard is the same one that I was going to use until I decided that I did not want to wait the extra 2 plus minutes for power every time that I started the generator. If the extra wait for generator power does not bother you, I see nothing wrong with your installation.

Although a generator related power problem is a possible, it is very rare. I think that your coach has the variable speed 8KW Onan, so overvoltage from an over-speed condition is not a concern since the generator produces DC current and uses an inverter to produce 120V AC. On the other hand the 10KW and 12.5KW units are constant speed units that produce 120V AC current with the generator and over-speed is a real problem if it happens.

Gerald    

[Gil_Johnson]

Gerald, I do have the 10KW Onan generator.  It's good to know the differences between the 10K and smaller units.

When I tested my installation using the generaor (the only power I have at my storage location) I noted that thet transfer switch had already selected the generator power before I could get from the generator start switch to the bay were the transfer switch is.  I'm guessing the transfer switch provides priority to generator power.  That guess and the generator power being the only power, I'm again guessing the transfer switch did not introduce any timer function.

[Edward Buker]

Gil,

The transfer switch should have normal contacting to the shore power side and does no do any switching to the generator side until the delay circuit timer is satisfied. That tmer is usually 60 to 90 seconds to allow the generator to stabilize. The timer starts when AC voltage is sensed on the generator side. I'm thinking you were moving slower like I do today or time was flying while having fun..... You may want to check your transfer switch timing, it is possible that it is defective and switching too soon.

Later Ed

[barbhalsell]

Does anyone have pictures of their install of the hard wired surge guard? We are going to try to get this done this weekend and would appreciate anyones advice.

[Joel Weiss]

My Surge Guard is underneath in the basement near the transfer switch and not something I can reach to take a picture of easily.  

I didn’t do the work myself; I know they moved the transfer switch a bit so this could fit in.  There’s nothing particularly interesting to see with respect to the install, though----incoming cable goes to SG then output of SG goes to transfer switch.

[Richard Cooper]

I am so far behind the times with regard to this very important subject, but within a week or so of beginning a journey in my coach.  I want to address this protection immediately.  I see online that Camping World is having a big sale that ends Sunday, June 24 and acting now could save a bunch.

For instance, their Progressive hardwired with display EMS-HW50C (rating 240V/50A/12,000W) is sale priced at $300.37 and regular price is $432.  This one comes with a remote display.  Where does one install the remote display?

But, also found on Camping World a 50 Amp RV Voltage Regulator for $620.
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/product/surge-guard-rv-voltage-regulators/7507

Would the voltage regulator be a better solution to power issues and dangers than the high end hard-wired surge guard?

[Joel Weiss]

The surge suppressors that many of us have installed protect against both voltage spikes on the line and excessively low or high voltage.  They do the latter by shutting power off if the shore power is too high or too low.  The voltage regulator is capable of raising or lowering the shore power voltage to compensate for high or low voltage.  

In theory this is preferable, but I's not sure from the description of the product whether or not it also acts as a regular surge suppressor.  IMHO voltage transients and miswired pedestals are the most common problems to be concerned about.   I'm willing to have a system that shuts down when the voltage is too high or low (I can always run my generator, if necessary.)  I would also hate to go back to a device that needs to be used external to the coach and which would have to be secured in place (unless you want to risk your $600 gadget).

As for where the remote surge suppressor displays can be mounted, "anywhere" is probably a good answer since you would normally only look at it once when you plugged into shore power.  Mine doesn't have a remote display but I can see the LEDs if I crawl into the basement!

[Richard Cooper]

Thank you!

This may be a stupid question, but it seems to me that if a cg pedestal is miswired -- why does this continue?  Bad management I suppose, poor maintenance practices?  It seems to me that if one is miswired that the prior camper at that spot may have told them about it and they wouldn't be renting that space until they fixed it.  Of course, what is reasonable practice to me and you is one thing and to a cg mgr another.  

Is there a device one can buy to "stick into" the 50 amp or 30 amp receptacle PRIOR TO going to the effort of backing into the spot, getting setup only to discover you are going to have to move?  That would enable you to screen out a miswired pedestal.  Perhaps the same device could detect power fluctuations too.

I am in favor of getting a surge protector --- in fact, I already have one, but it's one I paid $110 for.  It's a SSP-50 from Progressive.  I would like to get a hard-wired protector such as the Progressive EMS-HW50C.  It's my bad timing but Camping World has it on sale right now for $300.37 + $6.00 shipping.  If you put in promotion code 2756 it will sell to you for $50 less than that.  This sale ends tomorrow.  But the thing is that I am leaving on my trip in a week and their website says they ship from the manufacturer and they won't do express shipping.  Shipping takes 2-3 weeks.

On the other hand I can get another hard wired one from Amazon and delivered for free in 2 days.  The one they have is TRC 34560 Surge Guard 50-Amp Hardwire priced at $273.  Would I be ok with this one?  Has no remote for it though.  Not as high joules rating as the Progressive either.

[Gerald Farris]

Richard,
I have had a 34560 Surge Guard hard wired into my coach for over ten years and it has performed flawlessly. I would not be without it. The biggest problem that I have found that it safeguards you against is mis-wired pedestals (as a fulltimer I see a couple a year). It also has a delay feature if there is a power disruption that will give your A/C units time to equalize pressure to prevent compressor failure. I do not have a remote, and I see no need for one. It would just be another gadget and a waste of money. The Surge Guard does it's job without any input from you, and it does it well.

Normally a voltage regulator is not needed nearly as often as the Surge Guard is, however since I am a Thousand Trails member and I see low voltage often if I am at one of their older parks that has aluminum wiring, I have an 50 amp Hughes Autoformer hardwired in series between the Surge Guard and the transfer switch.  

Gerald

[LarryNCarolynShirk]

I transferred the Surge Guard from our '98 Patriot to the current coach.  The cost per year diminishes over time.  After12 years, the cost for peace of mind is negligible.  About 8 years ago I added a Hughes Autoformer hardwired as Gerald did.  The only display is on the units in the bay.  I seldom check them.

Larry