Coolant change

[Gerald Farris]

Ken,
The important thing to look for in any extended life coolant that you use in your coach is the Caterpillar EC-1 specification. Any coolant that meets that specification will give satisfactory service. The label of the container will list the specifications that the product meets.

Gerald

[Edward Buker]

Ken,

My drain is at the bottom of the radiator at a point that was lower than the block and I had the coach parked at a slight slope with the front up. It seemed to drain very well based on what the manual indicated was the capacity. When you think about it the block and the radiator has the vast majority of the capacity and what heads to the front of the coach is small diameter lines by comparison. The front heater core is quite high compared to the drain and certainly drained down with some residual anti freeze left in the lines. The conditioner cartridge and plumbing I removed based on Gerald's input to eliminate a failure source. Seemed to all go pretty well...

Later Ed

[Ken Sair]

Finally arrived at a decision. Going with CAT ELC (bought at Empire CAT in Mesa for $12.50 gal - not $16 as quoted). Work being done at Freightliner El Paso. 2-3 hours at $125 per hour. They were very helpful. Told me if I showed up and wanted CAT ELC they would drive to CAT dealer and get it, 90 minutes round trip 'if' someone was available. That little hint save me about $40 in product and probably sitting around for 2 hours with my bride giving me the 'look'.

Thanks for all your help

Ken Sair 2007 Contessa

[Ken Buck]

Sounds like you've got a good system going. Air locks in heaters mounted high up are very common. Even engines get them when all the coolant is drained. The Lehman diesel in my boat has a petcock on the top of the manifold to bleed the air out. It will alway air lock if the petcock isn't opened and bled properly. Some cars were prone to that also and we always made sure the heater worked properly before we sent a car back out after a flush and fill.

I'm disappointed that some Cat dealers would only stock pre-mix. Concentrate has always seemed like a much easier way to go for me.

Ken

[Edward Buker]

I think the issue is that today most all the Cat engines/equipment in the field has ELC already in it either new or converted. Monaco seemed uniquely slow to change over, not sure they ever did.

 Basically without knowing anything about the cooling system capacity and what portion would drain, the 50/50 mix always works if you already had ELC in it. They also do not have to worry about having a stock of distilled water on hand. The Cat parts guy indicated that they literally sell none of the concentrate and it had a shelf life so they did not stock it. That still seemed strange to me given any ELC conversion work that came in should have had some ELC concentrate in the mix.

later Ed

[Richard And Babs Ames]

Local radiator shop here charged me under $200 including labor and used Texaco ELC and said it was produced by the same company that makes CAT ELC.

[Ken Buck]

Now it's not making sense at all. Cat says in their literature that 50/50 is the optimum mixture and 60/40 provides better protection. http://parts.cat.com/cda/files/3055800/7/PEHJ0067-02.pdf  If Cat Dealers are flushing and filling with only 50/50 they aren't ever getting even 50/50 finished product, because of retain. If they are just "changing coolant" and putting 50/50 back in, then they are accepting whatever condition the retain is in as good coolant still, after the 6 year/600,000 mile change interval has been reached. In your motorhome, that's 2 gallons of old coolant along with the new. That seems wrong.

Maybe I'm being to picky with concentrations, but I can't help but think they write the specs for a reason.

[Dick Simonis]

Local radiator shop here charged me under $200 including labor and used Texaco ELC and said it was produced by the same company that makes CAT ELC.

WOW, seems like an awfully good price.  Either the Texeco coolant is much less $$ than Cat or the labor rate is very low.  I had figured that ELC for mine would run ~160.00 just for the coolant. (56 qts)

[Richard And Babs Ames]

The owner has been a friend for many years from his grandfather on and he runs a low overhead operation. He did not charge.

[Edward Buker]

2 bucks,

I am certainly not referring to all Cat dealers nor am I trying to criticize them in any way. For the most part they are a good outfit. I was thinking of having them do the ELC conversion and I asked how they would do it. I was told by the service manger that they would drain, use a "cleaner" additive to flush, drain again, and fill with 50/50 ELC. Maybe this being a very southern dealer they do not worry about exactly getting to 50/50 dillution rate and this falls in the catagory of good enough. This is probably not an issue in front engine trucks or heavy equipment which is most of their work. They probably drain very well.

The parts department definately did not stock ELC concentrate, I had to order that for my own use which came in on the parts truck in a couple of days.

I think if you already have ELC and do a standard drain and several older gallons are retained that is probably just fine. You are repleneshing the chemical components to new in 90% of the solution and the rest gets dilluted into the mix. This coolant is very stable and has a very long use life that most of us will never have to worry about. Like with any auto transmission oil change, you are working with dillution and a partial fluid repelenishment as a routine.

I think the bottom line is it is probably wise to know how the work will be done to your coach for things that are not so routine, and it should pass your own "muster test" before you give them the green light. The Meritor disk brake lube procedure is another procedure that I would want to know how the work would be done and what grease will be used. Just my line of thinking....hate surprises.

Later Ed

[Ken Sair]

Had the coolant drained, radiator flushed with cleaner and refilled with CAT ELC today. The work was done at Freightliner in El Paso TX. They were truly great to us. Half their mechanics called in sick (the day after the superbowl-suspicious!!) and initially said the earliest they could get to me was Tuesday. I explained this was maintenance work  and not a mechanical failure so they thought it could be quick. Changed their mind and We were in the bay within 30 minutes and the job took exactly 3 hours minus their lunch  break.

9 gallons of distilled water, $9.13. 12 gallons CAT ELC, $164.36 (used 9.5 gallons on re-fill). Labor, 2 hours at $115 per hour (RV rate is $124) plus the ever present and mysterious shop supplies charge and $1 sales tax. Total came to $418 and change. Much less than the CAT estimates of between $650 and $700.

Ken Sair 2007 Contessa