Dinghy Brake System

[Gil_Johnson]

[face=Arial]Ed,
As you likely know, this topic generally spurs a lot of conversation that often leads to differences in interpretation or failure to look at definitions.  Much of the interpretation centers on the fact that some states don’t specifically define or discuss vehicles being directly towed.  My interpretation is that when a state does not specifically discuss a vehicle being towed on its own wheels outside of the temporary towing behind a wrecker, then the car is simply a trailer.  Let’s look at Florida statute, given it was a state you referenced and the one I live in.

Here’s the actual Florida statute: http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/316.261

Florida does not specifically spell out a car in tow, except as towed behind a wrecker.  Therefore, we need to look at how FL defines a trailer.  FL’s definition of a trailer would include a car being towed by a tow bar.  Here’s the definition:

316.003 Definitions.—The following words and phrases, when used in this chapter, shall have the meanings respectively ascribed to them in this section, except where the context otherwise requires:
( 58 ) TRAILER.—Any vehicle with or without motive power, other than a pole trailer, designed for carrying persons or property and for being drawn by a motor vehicle.

Florida’s brake requirements laws state a need for a braking system on a trailer over 3,000 pounds and those under 3,000 pounds under certain circumstances.  In almost all cases, if not all cases, a towed vehicle (trailer) needs brakes activated by the towing vehicle.  The statute further defines a requirement for break-away brakes.  Here’s the reference:

316.261 Brake equipment required.—Every motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer, and any combination of such vehicles, operating upon a highway within this state shall be equipped with brakes in compliance with the requirements of this chapter.
(1) SERVICE BRAKES; ADEQUACY.—Every such vehicle and combination of vehicles, except special mobile equipment not designed to carry persons, shall be equipped with service brakes adequate to control the movement of and to stop and hold such vehicle under all conditions of loading, and on any grade incident to its operation.
(3) BRAKES ON ALL WHEELS.—Every vehicle shall be equipped with brakes acting on all wheels except:
(a) Trailers, semitrailers, or pole trailers of a gross weight not exceeding 3,000 pounds, provided that:
1. The total weight on and including the wheels of the trailer or trailers shall not exceed 40 percent of the gross weight of the towing vehicle when connected to the trailer or trailers; and
 (4) AUTOMATIC TRAILER BRAKE APPLICATION UPON BREAKAWAY.—Every trailer, semitrailer, and pole trailer with air or vacuum-actuated brakes, every trailer and semitrailer with a gross weight in excess of 3,000 pounds, and every pole trailer with a gross weight in excess of 3,000 pounds manufactured or assembled after January 1, 1972, shall be equipped with brakes acting on all wheels and of such character as to be applied automatically and promptly, and remain applied for at least 15 minutes, upon breakaway from the towing vehicle.

Of course your decision is yours.  BTW, a 4,000+ pound moving object is almost always more dangerous than one at rest.  Sure someone may hit a stationary object and get the full affects of their car’s mass and speed.  Regardless of whether you have a break-away system or not, a runaway car will at some point stop.  A runaway car travelling at any speed hitting another car will always increase the damage and risk of death given it’s mass is in movement causing more impact force.

BTW, I have heard of tow bar failures, similiar to the one described where the tow bar brackets break off the towed vehicle.  This is not as a result of loose bolts or tow bar failures, rather a failure of the unibody mounting locations.  That's why I use Roadmaster brakets and tow bars.  Specifically, I like the extrat lateral support provided by the tow bar's cross bar.  Here's something to consider.  Where's your safety chains/cables attached to your towed vehicle?  Likily on the very tow brackets that MAY separate from the towed car.

Just my 2 cents and not looking to stir this one up too much,

Gil
2012 Explorer with Air Force One braking system[/face][size=14][/size]

[Bill Sprague]

..... Anyone know someone who has been ticketed for not having an active breaking system on the toad and where it was?

In my 8 years of motorhoming, another 10 years owning two fifthwheels and reading RV forums as long as they have been around, I have never heard of it.   I've also never seen a tow truck operator put a Brake Buddy in the towed car.

[Bill Sprague]

Gil,

Our Blu-Ox system on our Ford Edge has a cross bar too.  It seems to be a design philosophy difference between the two companies.   One company makes it visible and the other hides it.  Ours is located behind the grill.  To install it, all of the sheet metal forward of the windshield had to be removed and replaced.  It took the installer 6 hours!

[Gil_Johnson]

Bill,

The Roadmaster on my 2011 Jeep GC and 2012 Explorer has a frame attached cross member too.  The Roadmaster also has a tow bar cross member.  FWIW, I just viewed the connection methods and locations better on Roadmaster over Blue Ox for these two vehicle.  Obviously, both companies do well and opinions will vary.

As for tow truck operators, they have some specific exemptions for braking systems on what they are towing.  If they didn't they wouldn't be in business.

Gil

[Ken Buck]

Hmmm.... well if I don't know anyone that got a ticket for it then maybe I don't need a fire extinguisher in my rig as required by law either. And since I don't know any motorhome operator that ever had their fuel checked for taxed clear versus non-taxed dyed fuel, I could start using non-taxed fuel too. Anyone recall being pulled over to check if Lincolns head shows when checking the depth of tread on your tires? Because I haven't seen it doesn't seem like a convincing arguement to me.

I personally feel that having a toad brake system is a reasonable standard of care for myself and those driving near my vehicle. Whether the law requires it can be debated, if a serious accident occured it most likely would go to court and be decided there. I'd rather look the injured party in the eye and say that it was truly an accident and that I had taken all reasonable precautions, than debating whether the law required me to have toad brakes or not. I would have a hard time explaining why I thought that the law required a 3,000 pound travel trailer/fifth wheel/gravel trailer to have brakes, but my 3,000 pound car shouldn't. I just can't get my mind around that concept.

In the big scheme of things a $2,000 toad brake system isn't a make or break for me to go motorhoming. And toad brake systems can be obtained for much less than that. I prefer an air operated system which is more expensive but easier to hook up and use. That makes it much more likely that I will use it each and every time I tow.

However, I'm also of the opinion that each person needs to make their own decisions on what they are comfortable with. If you don't want a brake system then more power to you. Reasonable people can disagree.  

Ken

[Edward Buker]

Gil,

Good find on the trailer defenition. It clearly includes a car in tow. I have been using the safety chain mounts on the tow receiver but I will look at an alternative to that based on this forum discussion. My Honda weighs 3120lbs so that would be illegal in Florida. The Mini that I am going to use is 2750lbs so I would still be legal there. I believe in a light tow if you can live with that. What I tow is near the 50% capacity rating of the weakest component. I was surprised that most states do not have any significant restrictions until you get to the 40% of the towing vehicle weight from the table in the reference. Basing the rules on the ratio of tow weight to trailer weight made sense to me but 40% seemed high to me in todays environment of RVs and heavy vehicles.

Living just across a bridge from Pensacola Florida I can understand the need for the law when I see some of the Yahoos in pick up trucks towing a total wreck of a trailer with bald tires, no lights, no brakes, no safety chains, clearly overloaded with a huge pile of rusty scrap metal, some of which hangs out into the adjacent lane, heading to the scrap metal dealer. Usually there is a cracked windshield involved also. Clearly there needs to be some law regarding things in tow. I just have never seen a sheriff pull one of these guys over. If you or I were in the truck towing that stuff we would probably be pulled over in a minute :-)  I lived most of my life in VT and they are pretty strict up there with enforcement. It was a real eye-opener for us with the move to the south.

Thanks for the insight...

Later Ed

[Karl Welhart]

I have been motorhoming for 35 years.  Lost several trailers with cars on them, lost two toads because of broken tow bars and in all cases safety cables/chains held them from breaking away.  In the case of one trailer (had electric brakes) with break-away, the seperate battery was dead and would not have done any good.  The first 20 years of towing a car (4 wheels down), I did not use any braking systems in the toad.  I do not think there were any marketed during that time (1980-2000).  When I bought my first brake system, it was horrible....  The first unit did not work out of the box.  The second unit compressor just kept running.   The third unit locked up the toad brakes several times, then I stopped using any type of supplemental braking system.  I have never heard about anyone being ticketed or cited for not having supplemental brakes on a toad, either during normal operations or in the case of an accident.  In Florida, we have routine check points all the time with both FHP and DOT inspectors.  This issue has never been addressed or inspected for in my experiences.  

[Edward Buker]

Ken,

I don't play with matches (anymore) and I'm a firm believer in fire extinguishers....  

Now this guy that we met last summer looked like he was in his own wagon train when he pulled in next to us. He lived in his RV and the closed up Vanagon was loaded so full of all his belongings that you could not see the floor anywhere in the vehicle. What caught my attention was the large cyclinder full of propane between the front seats. No room for any toad brakes here. He had been traveling by "wagon train" for the last 10 years and loved it. I'm not sure he had a fire extuingusher but even if he did he could never find it.....And yes he also did smoke. The wire that goes up over the Vanagon windshield heads for the final trailer in his wagon train.

I'm guessing at some point in the future he will be a Darwin Award recipient and very proud of it... what a country.

Actually I'm feeling pretty safe with my big Beaver Coach and little Toad set up for now....

Later Ed

[Karl Welhart]

Wow... Great picture to share with us.  I also have seen this double tow situation.  Generally, it has been a 5th wheel and boat behind.  I will confess that I did this for many years.  My 1977 31' Wanderlodge, pulling a jeep CJ with golf cart in trailer behind.... No brakes on anything but the motorhome.  Bad me!!!!!!  BTW, many of us witnessed at an Eastern Homecoming in Orlanda a 40' Safari Class A pulling a Safari 28' Class C pulling a small car.  I know of a person in Georgia that was pulled over and ticketed for the double tow situation.

[Joel Ashley]

A full propane cylinder isn't that much of a hazard.  It's the ones that aren't full that firemen want to know about, for good reason.

Tow trucks don't need auxilliary braking because they aren't towing 4 down.

Triple towing is allowed in the following 28 states:
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Mexico
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah

Of course, nothing is ever straightforward and simple though.
Many of these states have a variety of restrictions which could still hamper your ability to tow two trailers.
For example, some states limit total length of all 3 units to 65 feet. In some instances, the limit is 70 feet or 75 feet total length.
In some states, triple towing is restricted to adding the second trailer only behind a 5th wheel trailer.
Many states limit the second trailer to recreational equipment, such as a boat, snowmobile, or ATV 4-wheelers.
In California you even need a special endorsement on your drivers license to tow any trailer over 10,000 lbs or to drive a motorhome that is over 40 feet in length.

Rules For Commercial Trucks vs Recreational Vehicles:

As far as state DMVs go, the world of recreational vehicles and the world of commercial trucking are 2 separate entities.
Some states allow "double bottom," "triple," or however you wish to label a situation where you have 2 trailers hooked behind one tow vehicle in the commercial truck classifications. But, you must realize that that these rules may not cross over to the recreational vehicle world.
Commercial triples are set up such that the air brake system continues on through all 3 pieces. The second trailer rides on a 5th wheel dolly, not a 2-inch chrome ball purchased at the local hardware store. Therefore, when commercial trucks apply the brakes, all wheels will apply at the same time with equal pressure.
On the other hand, recreational vehicles may have air brakes on the motorhome, electric brakes on the first trailer, and in many cases no brakes at all on the third item being towed.
To that end, the federal D.O.T. doesn’t want any part of regulating non-commercial situations. So, they leave it completely up to each state to set their own limitations. Just remember, seeing a semi truck pulling 2 trailers on or near an interstate highway does NOT mean you’re good to go with more than one trailer.

Information pertaining to trailer towing rules and regulations for all states: Woodall’s Rules of the Road *  http://www.woodalls.com/articledetails.aspx?articleID=1195129

*taken from an article in The Fun Times Guide .com

-Joel

PS- interesting note that the Canadian mountain provinces of BC and Alberta will allow brakeless toads under circumstances that fit most of our configurations.

[Karl Welhart]

Forgot to mention on the Eastern Homecoming story... We asked the guy driving the motorhome, why are you pulling an RV?  He said that was for his wife.....  That should start a new thread.

[Richard And Babs Ames]

Two of the most extreme triple tows I  have seen are: a Toter, huge fifth wheel, tow dolly and a Cadalic on it (maybe quad tow) and a 45 prevost with a 35 foot high boy trailer and a car on the the back of the trailer. Both in FL.

 It may be legal in FL now as we see a lot of semis with the double trailers.

[Bill Sprague]

I have an acquaintance from camp hosting in a state park that is a retired Arizona cop.  He and his wife live in a fifthwheel that's about 40 feet.  He tows it with a Volvo tractor that he says cost him less than a pickup.  Behind the fifthwheel he tows a Jeep Cherokee, that does not have aux brakes.  Between the truck cab and front of the fifthwheel he has a motorcycle.  Even though his home used to be Arizona, he licenses everything in a dummy corporation in Montana.   He tows double everywhere.  He argues that Montana drivers have reciprocal privileges anywhere they go.  He maintains he has never been pulled over but has knowledge, skills and paperwork to stop any cop from giving him a ticket.  He has a buddy that shows up once in awhile that does the same thing.  You don't dare asking either of them a question about it because they won't stop teaching you how smart they are until you agree 100%!

[Bill Brown]

We too have the Roadmaster Breakmaster system and have been very pleased with it.  We have used it now for about 5 years with no problems.  Had Roadmaster install it at thier plant.  That way we know it was done right.  Now something to consider is the new Roadmaster "Invis-a-brake".  It sounds to be everybit as good as brakemaster, and a few less steps when hitting the road.  Just something to consider.
Bill Brown
06 Monterey, Laguna IV
toad 02 GMC Envoy

[Dick Simonis]

I've been reading this thread and thinking about it quite a bit.  I have the Roadmaster Even Brake system that i bought with the Roadmaster Falcon All Terrain tow bar.  It worked OK until the MH dash monitor malfunctioned after which I stopped using it.  The dash monitor is simply a wireless monitor for the system and, although the brake system will work without it, I don't have a lot of confidence it it simply because I have not idea how much braking force is being applied.  The monitor will display a "brake applied" message but the MH is so heavy and the toad is only about 11.75% of the weight.....I can't feel it.  On my TT there was no doubt about the braking force as the relative weights were reversed.

Yesterday, I looked over the toad and MH trying to visualize failure mechanisms and the consequences of each.

Reciever:  it's welded directly to the MH sub-frame and is rated for 5,000 lbs.  There is no compressive loads of any consequence yet I recall while I was at the Bend facility last year I say a couple laying on the floor pretty bent up.  If the receiver fails and becomes disconnected, no break-a-way or safety chains will keep the toad from taking it's own path and not stopping until it runs out of steam.  I can see one potential problem here where the toad is 4,000 lbs and the wheels lock up due to the braking system it could easily overload the 5k receiver rating and possible pull it right off the MH.

Hitch:  Seems to be a pretty unlikely failure item as, once again there is no hitch wt to speak of.

Tow bar:  Tough to see a catastrophic failure here as it's pretty stout and even if one arm would fail, the toad would still be attached even though it wouldn't follow very well.  Still, a good inspection of the pivot points should be performed.

Base plates:  Two separate plates each well attached to the toad frame with three 5/8" grade 8 bolts.  As long as they are routinely inspect, should be fine.

Jackknifing of the toad;  Pretty much impossible without the rear end going into a skid.  That would take such a radical maneuver the MH is probably already wrecked.

Toad pushing the MH laterally:  Again, unless the toad radically departed straight flight, seems to be improbable.  Even if the toad was at 45 degrees to the MH the front wheels would still be aligned in the direction of travel and, without them losing traction, will bear the brunt of the force.

I'm still twixt and tween on this whole subject.  I will get a new dash monitor before out summer sojurn but will continue to set the braking system very concervitely.  I don't see a need fot the toad brakes to be applied unless I'm braking very hard.  

Overall, a good thought provocing thread