Author Topic: ignition/TV interlock  (Read 7750 times)

Joel Ashley

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ignition/TV interlock
« on: June 08, 2012, 07:23:05 PM »
OK, here's one for ya.
For the last week or 10 days the 32" Sharp TV up front has had issues with turning off.  I figured it was from excess heat in the upper front cap, and the weather here in Nebraska has been around 90 degrees regularly.  You'd turn the TV off and 10 seconds later it would come back on all by itself.  Finally, since the plug for it is hard to access, I just flipped off the breaker on the inverter (30 amp) box in the toilet room cabinet.  That also affects other outlets down the dinette and unfortunately the icemaker in the fridge, but it worked for overnight.  When cool enough, the TV seems to shut off okay.

Now for the real ringer:  yesterday I wanted to move the coach (we've been parked in the city park for 5 days on 30 amps) to a position I could reach a park faucet from with my water hoses, to fill up our tank.  The coach wouldn't start.  In 90 degree heat I marched back and forth between bays and the inside, pulling my hair out trying to figure why only the "Wait to Travel" light came on on the dash when the key was turned to "On".  Normally the guages move, the tranny monitor lights, a bunch of dash lamps come on, and clicking noises abound for several seconds, then when the Air Dryer lamp goes out, I turn the ignition to crank.  None of that happened;  only the red "Wait to Travel" lamp worked.

I called BCS in Bend for help, but they had no clue beyond low chassis batteries (they were fine) or the tranny not in neutral (it was).  Racking my brain for what had been haywire recently that might affect starting, it occurred to me that there is a configuration in place that shuts down the front TV if the ignition is on.  You never know, so I went in the bath and flipped off the A/V breaker.  Sure enough, when the ignition was keyed to "On", the pre-start routine began as normal!  I didn't crank it, but went back and turned the breaker on again.  This time the pre-start lamps and clicking noises didn't work.  I turned off the breaker, called BCS to tell them the culprit, started the coach, got my tank full, and washed the Colorado and Nebraska bugs off the front end while I was at it, fully cooking myself in the process.

I've since discovered that there is no consistency to the scenario, because occasionally the pre-start won't work even if the A/V Dash/Dinette breaker is off.  Fortunately it usually works eventually, so in theory we'll not be stranded.  I've thoroughly examined my book of Wiring Diagrams, but can't find the means by which Monaco cuts out the TV power when the ignition is On, as it seems pretty obvious that device, whatever and wherever it is, is the cause of both the TV not shutting down when commanded (by either remote or TV's switch on top) and the ignition not activating.  The TV is mounted in the overhead in such a way that it is hard to see what all is behind it, though I followed the power cord as best I could to its outlet, that is shared by some sort of surge multi-outlet where other components plug in.  If there's some sort of ignition-controlled cut-out device up there, I can't see it.  Conceivably it could be that multi-outlet that looks like a simple cream-colored 4-6 plug surge unit you'd buy at a hardware store;  Monaco wrapped it in foam tape for whatever reason.  But the TV isn't plugged into the mult-outlet surge unit directly, only into the same standard double wall outlet as the "surge" unit.

If you've been there, done that, I'd sure appreciate your input, and ditto if you've a clue what's really going on.  Sounds like BCS hasn't run into it either, and could always use such info lest I'm not the only victim of this odd gremlin.  Been away from WiFi for awhile, but finally found a connection at the local library, so will check back when I can.

Thanks Guys,
Joel and Lee
Tekamah, NE for a few more days
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 07:33:48 PM by 77 »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

barbhalsell

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 09:11:27 PM »
I just have this picture of you stomping back and forth with your hair standing straight out saying #$%rackem, sackem#$%!  ;D

Joel Ashley

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 10:25:57 PM »
That picture you have just wouldn't do my real demeanor at the time justice.  And my hair couldn't stand up too far, since Lee'd just gave me a haircut  :P. And those weren't my exact words.
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Bill Sprague

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2012, 05:48:22 AM »
Most of the time when something electrical acts very goofy and intermittent, it is a bad ground somewhere.

Good luck.

Bill

Edward Buker

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2012, 03:20:54 PM »
Joel,

If I remember right the relay in mine is very close proximity or housed in the box with the outlet that kills the TV with the ignition. It was a standard type relay with the clear plastic housing several inches square. It obviously is controlled by the 12V ignition wiring from the dash area so it must have a 12V coil. I thought the way this worked is if the ignition came on, it would open the 120V relay TV circuit and turn the TV off. I do not think that this works in reverse and that is if the TV is on the ignition will not work. Not sure what you have going on but in my travels in the overhead I have come across that relay close to the outlet feeding the TV. My guess is that the AV breaker may not be involved just maybe luck of the draw when you hit the ignition key. Maybe the 12V relay/solenoid that fires the ignition with the key switch would be a good place to take a measurement. I remember Gerald discussing that solenoid has been problematic.

The TV bug with the on and off sounds like a heat or light sensitive on off circuit in the Sharp TV. I would add a manual override switch and mount it in a handy place by the TV. You cannot get these things repaired very redily. Hope this helps.....hate the Gremlins.

Later Ed

« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 09:37:19 PM by 910 »

Joel Ashley

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2012, 03:53:22 AM »
I am not inclined to think it is the luck of the draw, Ed, since after an hour of trying to get the dash to light up at the ignition "on" position, it finally worked the very first time I tried immediately after flipping off the A/V breaker.  Wouldn't work if I turned the breaker on again, then would the next flip to off.  Admittedly, 20% of the time the dash is blank even with the A/V breaker off, but eventually it does work.  I have to believe both issues are heat related and a relay is involved somehow, probably the culprit for both problems.

I looked through the overhead cabinet last night and again today as best I could, but everything is so jammed in up there it's tough to follow wires in the back.  I may have to disassemble the trim panels behind the TV for better access.  I can see the two outlet boxes everything plugs into, since they are up front along the wall between the TV and the components area, but I sure don't see any clear relay-like device as you describe.

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Edward Buker

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2012, 04:56:35 AM »
Joel,

Follow your instincts. The repeated nature of the on off AV breaker enabling the ignition must indicate some link. My impression is that the AV breaker is a 120V AC breaker which makes this even more puzzling. Good luck with this one.

Later Ed

LarryNCarolynShirk

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2012, 05:02:50 AM »
Joel,

This may not help, but when SMC was making coaches, that relay was mounted in the cabinet over the driver, behind the TV, high on the driver side wall.  It was in a gray junction box about 5 inches square and 1 1/2 inches deep.  When the ignition was turned on, the TV would go off.  The original owner had disabled that relay so I could watch NFL while driving :-)  That is where I would look.  Good luck.

Larry

Steven Link

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2012, 01:09:30 PM »
Joel,
My marquis has done something similar to this and we discovered it was the multiplex system causing the problem. TV was not an issue but the starting problem you describe was almost the same. We found that shutting off all power to the house and chassis batteries then turning them back on would cure the problem. Like rebooting a computer. I have checked all the ground connections that I could find and have not found any issues. I turn off the power using the manual switches in the battery bay and the engine bay, wait about 30 seconds then turn both back on. Every thing works after that. I don't know if your coach is multiplex wired but this worked for us.

Steven Link
Steven & Penny Link
Springfield, TN
2009 Marquis,  Cat C-15

Joel Ashley

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2012, 11:45:43 PM »
Yes we have Multiplex, but one of the first things I did when the coach wouldn't start was shut off both main battery switches, waited, then tried to start again.  Nothing worked until I shut off the A/V breaker.  I'm not clear on how the Multiplex would work into this problem.  That seemed to come up re. how one would rewire and relay the headlamp circuits on different coach models, and sans a definitive answer, I just had BCS do my headlights while I was there last month.  Multiplex wasn't mentioned, but if it is a factor in the 12v/120v interaction, it would be nice to know in what way, because it could be an issue as you indicate re. the TV and ignition.

Joel
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 11:58:06 PM by 77 »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Joel Ashley

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2012, 07:18:20 AM »
As usual when it's electrical, Ed was on the right track - when all else fails, use your instincts, though mine often stinc  :P.

Today when the ignition wouldn't work, I went back and flipped off the A/V breaker, but the ignition still wouldn't work. Hot under the collar, literally, from an hour of breaking camp after a month-long stay in Tekamah, and doing it in 90 degree super-humid conditions, my brain flashed the obvious thing I hadn't yet tried; I reached a sweaty hand under the dash and fumbled the ignition wire bundle while turning the key. Bingo. And the ignition has since worked several more times today without touching any wires.

Apparently there is a poor wire connection at the ignition, just sensitive enough to work or fail by the slightest electrical system change, whether it be the nearby A/V circuit or park power post, much like a low quality GFCI is too sensitive to minor electric pulses. The heat and high humidity may have something to do with it. In a cooler moment I need to get on my back, take a peek under the dash, and examine closely the ignition configuration for a bad connection or perhaps a partially cut or broken wire that's not allowing full current all the time. Could be a bad splice or crimp. It probably won't cause the engine to falter or stop, because I think the start circuit is seperate from the run current.  I never got around to checking the solenoid or relay, but if it's not next to the ignition switch under the dash, it's likely not involved.

I'd rather not have to more and more regularly reach under and jiggle wires to get the rig to start, and perhaps get to a point where even that won't work. It would be nice to know which ignition wire was which when I get under there, so perhaps my coach wiring diagrams spell that out by wire color. At least the switch is at the very bottom of the dash front and to the right of the steering column, so relatively easy to get at for once.

Addendum:  the issue with the TV turning itself on stopped a couple weeks ago.  I have no clue why, and the coach hasn't budged in a month.  The heat spell around Omaha is actually worse now than it was back then.  Gremlins, Gremlins, rah,rah,rah.

Joel  
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Steven Link

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Re: ignition/TV interlock
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2012, 01:26:42 PM »
It is amazing to me how things just seem to break on our "houses on wheels" while sitting still and then spontaneously repair themselves. Your problem was probably caused by the steam coming from your ears.  Next time I need to hotwire my coach I'll call you Joel! Good Luck.
Steven & Penny Link
Springfield, TN
2009 Marquis,  Cat C-15