Electrical Problem

[Jim Shaw]

I have a 2003 Monterey Coronado.  The ground fault in the bay popped and will not reset.  I install a new ground fault and it did the same.  There are two load wires, and I found by disconnecting them one at a time, I have narrowed the problem to DNT RCPT, OS Table RCPT and the Sconce light and switch.  These are in the living area, and I have located all of them but the DNT RCPT.  Does anyone know where the DNT RCPT is located?  Also is there still a phone number that we can call to Monaco for help, if so what is the number?
Thanks Jim

[Edward Buker]

Jim,

Not sure what the DNT recepticle is but if that circuit is still isolated wiring wise at the GFCI pull the bulbs out of the sconces, pull the dimmer if you have one for the sconces and wire nut the black wires that are the hot and load to bypass it. If it is just a switch leave it on. With nothing plugged into those recepticles you should see megohms of resistance between the hot and the neutral that you isolated at the GFCI on that leg. You can take a hair dryer with the switch on or any known resistance and plug it into the outlets one at a time to find the DNT recepticle (I was thinking dinette but you have a table outlet) If all seems in order with megohms of resistance connect it back up and see if you still get the tripping with nothing connected. If not turn it off and add the dimmer back and check that for causing the tripping. If that is the cause you can try and replace the dimmer. If you find megohms of resistance, with no loads plugged in, and still get tripping then try the following. (with megohms of resistance and no stray current paths their should be no reason for the GFCI tripping)

I have found this same circuit in my coach to be sensitive to tripping and have changed over to a Leviton 20Amp rated GFCI for outdoor use that I found at Home Depot and that solved my problem. Any other GFCI I tried seemed to trip and this version is just more fault tolerant. My sense is that a small amount of wiring oxidation or GFCI internal contact oxidation would be enough to cause this problem. The external use rated GFCI may be a sealed circuit board that is not prone to internal current leakage with humidity or it probably has better contact metallurgy. I have not had a tripping problem since I have gone to this type GFCI. The PN in my original post seems to be discontinued but I was at a local Home Depot yesterday and bought a 20AMP Leviton outside use rated GFCI to wire in for a friend's pond pumps, so a version is still available. It was in the range of $20, several dollars more than the standard type. Hope this helps.

Later Ed

[Joel Ashley]

Jim-

Ed's right about installing a quality GFCI, and it would be a good first move.

This may not apply to your model, but in case it offers any insight, I offer it:  
the dinette receptacles on our '06 Monterey run inclusive with our audio/video outlets in the front overhead.  Also on that circuit is the icemaker in the refrigerator, but I don't know if your refer has one;  it plugs into a different outlet and circuit than the refrigerator itself.  It's conceivable that if you have one, a jammed icemaker and overheated motor could cause enough momentary load to pop a GFCI; as an aside, I don't think our circuit is led by the GFCI in the bay like yours, but rather the GFCI is in the breaker itself.(800) 634-0855

I'm not absolutely certain this number is still valid, but you can try Monaco at (800) 634-0855.


Joel

[Jim Shaw]

Thanks Ed and Joel for your input.  It was not the GFI as it turned out.  I traced all the wiring to the outlet in my wiring diagram and everything checked out.  I found an extra wire that was not shown in my wiring diagram, traced it and found that it went to the Ice maker outlet, unplugged it and everything else works fine.  I guess I can do without the Ice maker until I can figure out that problem.  Anyone had a problem with the ice-maker causing the GFI to pop?
Jim

[Gerald Farris]

Jim,
Icemakers that are located inside the freezer compartment of your refrigerator are well known for failures. You can replace the icemaker yourself for less than $100 in most cases.

Gerald

[Edward Buker]

Jim,

You may have gone further on this problem than others and actually found the likely source of many of our motorhomes having the bay GFCI trip. It may be more sensitive than the other GFCIs because it lives in the bay and that can be a damper environment with some wide temperature swings. If we are wired the same and we have the "bay tripper" I would start by unplugging the ice maker and see if that resolves the problem. I'll have to check and see if mine is on that same circuit. You could take an extension cord and feed the ice maker from other RV circuits and see if any will tolerate it. If you find one that does tolerate it then I would be changing out the bay GFCI to the Leviton outdoor version, it would be very likely that version GFCI would be tolerant enough to handle the ice maker based on my experience.

Later Ed

[Jim Shaw]

Thanks Ed.
I do plan to plug in the ice maker to an outlet in my garage and see it it trips the breaker. If it doesn't then I will try a different ground fault or wire it to a different source. I will be taking a trip next week and would like everything to work. Sure glad I was able to find the problem before we left.
Jim

[Joel Ashley]

I note a 10 gauge red and a 10 gauge black wire running into the ice maker outlet behind the refer in our coach.  This is in addition to the yellow AC circuit cables going in and coming out.  The red and black wires must be 12volt, but don't show up on the 120v wiring diagrams, as Jim discovered.  They must have some additional function that affects that outlet and perhaps outlets downstream, such as my dinette and TV and A/V outlets that have been acting up (note my other recent threads).

Gerald and Ed, could the 12v component in that ice maker outlet be involved with my TV and coach ignition issues?  I assume it closes off AC to the ice maker when the ignition goes to the ON position, much like it would to the TV.  Maybe one device there controls all AC outlets in that circuit?  Or are the heavy 12v wires for some other function?

Joel

[Edward Buker]

Joel,

I'm not sure what the red and black wire does but a 10 guage wire would likely be a 12V feed of some sort but not always, It is possible that a dual 12V/120V refrigerator could be wired that way. If your frid was not a dual voltage type frig that feed may have still been available as part of the standard wiring. We had one on our last coach. The only way to know is to see what voltage is on those wires and see how they are connected orif they are just dead ended.

Later Ed

[Joel Ashley]

We don't have dual voltage fridge operation.  12v only feeds the panel readout and the gas ignition as far as I know.  I really suspect that the ignition relay that shuts off the TV power may be what I'm looking at in those two wires leading into the icemaker outlet, since that icemaker outlet is the first one in that circuit, the dinette and wall sconce next, and the TV/A/V outlets are last on that circuit.  Placing a cutoff relay there could affect everything on the circuit, not just the icemaker.  I have yet to spot such a relay associated with the TV's outlet as you and others mentioned.

Joel

[Jim Shaw]

OK today I decided to plug my ice maker in to an outlet from my garage and it started working fine. I then plugged it back into the ice maker outlet on the motorhome and it is still working with out any problem. Anyone have an idea what could have caused my problem.
Jim

[Edward Buker]

If it did not work before and it works now you have to ask yourself where did the stray current path go that caused the GFCI to trip. When the current difference between the hot and the neutral exceeds about 4 milliamps then the interupt is supposed to be tripped. What can account for the current loss is a stray leakage path. The ice maker has a lot of moisture and humidity involved and lots of surrounded grounded metal given the plug has a ground lead (not sure but I think so). The water itself could be a current path under some circumstances. It is possible that the moisture involved in the leakage path has now dried up.

Sometime in your llife you have probably used a tool or appliance and gotten a shock. The shock you get and how much you feel it depends on how much you have sweated or how wet you are creating a good contact point and how well you are grounded with another part of your body at the time as part of the circuit. That variation in how much you feel it is much like the change in quality of the leakage path that seemed to have disappeared. It gets more complicated in that high humidity right in the GFCI outlet in the form of condensation I think can create the leakage path by itself. That is why I like and have had better success with the exterior rated GFCIs by Leviton in this bay application. We will never be sure exactly what happened in this case but this is one rational explanation. Hope this helps.

Later Ed

[Robert Mathis]

I had the same problem the April in the Keys. It had rained for several days, very windy, and we tripped the breaker that controlled the tv, icemaker, slide outlets, etc. When we got home, I had an electrician come over and find the fault. The major cause was the breaker itself. It isn't actually a GFI, but is an "arc-fault" breaker which is very sensitive to moisture. The outlets for the icemaker and refriderator were not on waterproof boxes and were very succeptible to moisture. He replaced the breaker and installed exterior outlet boxes that protect the circuits better. Like Jim, when the system dried out, it started working again, but I still had the replacements made. Note: this is the first time in over 5 years that we ever had a problem with this.