Lithium Ion Batteries

[Steven Link]

Is anyone using Lithium-ion batteries for their house or chassis? Please share your experience if so.

[Jerry Carr]

Hi Steve,
I am not using the Lithium style batteries, but I think I may have seen some type of display at Beaver Coach Sales in Bend, you may want to give Sean or Ken a call about them, they may be able to give you some info.

Please keep us posted if you do get some good or bad info.

[Edward Buker]

Is this question really a lithium ion question or an AGM (absorbtive Glass Mat) battery question? I have only seen a rare instance of a lithium ion battery being mentioned as a starting battery and they were $1500. They are typically used in a hybrid car installation which is a different custom installation. I'm not even sure if the required charge cycle is compatible with the options available on our Xantrex or equivalent. Thought I would question this, given the pace that things change nowadays, you just never know if the battery world is changing and I'm being left behind.

Later Ed

[Steven Link]

Nope Ed, I am definitely talking about Lithium Ion. I have AGMs now and they are toast. We dry camp a lot and my Lifelines are shot. Yes from what I know so far the LiFePO4 batteries are at least twice the cost of lifelines...$$$$ BUT they supposedly last 3-4 times longer and are 1/3 the weight. 3000 to 4000 charge cycles vs. 500 to 1000 for AGM. I am seriously considering them and know of only two companies so far.   Smart Battery  http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/lithium-rv-deep-cycle.php  and Lithonics  http://www.lithionicsbattery.com/rv.html .   I think this is fairly new for the RV market so the price will probably eventually come down. Just wanted to bounce it off the group.

[Edward Buker]

If you look at cost per year maybe they will come out O.K.  at some point. My sister in law drives a Ford Escape hybrid and it has been on the road 6 or 7 years and the battery system with that technology is still running with no fails but they seldom see a deep discharge working off of brake regeneration and perhaps an alternator/generator of some sort.  I have had computer laptop batteries fail with similar battery technology.

If the warranty was for 5 years or more and not pro rated then it may be something to look into. I would hate to have a 2 year warranty and then get a fail at those prices. Seems like you are one of those folks looking at "going where no man has gone before" :-)

Later Ed

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

I'm having problems with the economics of this. My assumptions; LI batteries run $500+ each. Normal wet cells at about $120 per. I get 5 - 8 years from wet cells. Thus the LI batteries would need to have about 5x the life of the wet cells (25-40 years). Seems like overkill. Of course,I'm not costing the maint. on wet cells or hassle of changing, but it still doesn't seem to balance out.
What am I missing?
Steve

[Dick Simonis]

For what's it worth, my experience has been that traditional wet cells are tough to beat.  I.e., I will be replacing by original equipment Interstate batteries before Quartzite and they are what, 10-11 years old.  Still functioning great but the capacity has dropped to about 40% and will not longer support heavy inverter loads like the microwave.  Reckon the replacemnt cost will be ~500.00 for the 4 of them.

Tough to justify AGM's and Li-ion is a non-starter.

[Wayne Tull]

Thought the below item was interesting information.

http://www.micro-power.com/userfiles/file/mp_upgrading_sla-1265139938.pdf

[Joel Ashley]

If BCS had a battery display for an alternative to standard batteries, it would most likely be a display for AGMs.  

I agree with Steve and Dick...  the numbers don't pan out.

Joel

[Dick Simonis]

If you look at cost per year maybe they will come out O.K.  at some point. My sister in law drives a Ford Escape hybrid and it has been on the road 6 or 7 years and the battery system with that technology is still running with no fails but they seldom see a deep discharge working off of brake regeneration and perhaps an alternator/generator of some sort.  I have had computer laptop batteries fail with similar battery technology.

If the warranty was for 5 years or more and not pro rated then it may be something to look into. I would hate to have a 2 year warranty and then get a fail at those prices. Seems like you are one of those folks looking at "going where no man has gone before" :-)

Later Ed

Ed, you can double check me on this but I believe that hybrids only allow that batteries to charge to ~75-80% and don't allow discharging below ~35-40%.  They do this to extend the battery life.  At least this was the case early on.

[Edward Buker]

Dick,

I have never investigated a hybrid but I am sure that the charging system is optimized for battery reliability as well as hybrid performance. I think that there may have been some government mandates on hybrid battery warranty duration as a consumer protection which may have influenced the use of a reduced portion of the charge curve.

I have been one who waits and lets the technology problems get worked out before I consider a new option like a hybrid. The same is true for any Lithium Ion battery technology as a house or chassis battery. The expense is well beyond other options and I am not sure if that technology is compatible and capiable of our application. I also think that our charge systems has never been tailored or optimized for that battery technology so that would be a hard stop issue even if money was no object.

Later Ed