Xantex problem

[Dave Cunningham]

I posted awhile ago about my charging problems with the chassis batteries, and got some helpful replies concerning the Echo Charger, to which I responded that I was on my way to check out, instead I think I poured another cocktail, and said to myself" I'll get to that tomorrow"
Anyway, now I am on the road without many tools, and all of a sudden I came back to the motor home, after being gone for a few hours, and the fault alarm on the Xantrex panel was going off, and the 50 amp outlet I was plugged into had popped the breaker.
Reset the breaker and the inverter came back on, then went into system shutdown, warning battery voltage too low, so I shut all the power off, disconnected the inverter to reset it, waited a few minutes, reconnected it, and fired everything up, and it seemed to be working fine.  Then it happened all over again.  Once it shutdown, the ac power came back on.  I'm assuming that the inverter went into bypass mode.
So I have power for now, but the batteries are way down, and I can't get the coach started.  If I charge the starting batteries with an external charger, and get it started, will the alternator charge all the batteries?
The fault code (135) on the control panel refers to a 24 volt inverter connected to a 12 volt battery bank, it says to correct the wiring and reset.

Any ideas

Thanks
Dave

[Gerald Farris]

Dave,
You did not say what year and model your coach is, however since you mentioned an Echo Charger, I will assume that you have a pre-Monaco coach. If that is the case, the alternator will recharge all batteries any time that the engine is running unless you have an alternator failure.

If you have access to a battery charger, and you have time, it would be best to recharge the house batteries as well as the chassis batteries. The reason for this is that although the engine alternator will recharge all batteries, the extra heat load on the alternator from recharging the large battery bank will shorten it's service life.

Gerald

[Edward Buker]

Dave,

That is a strange error message given this system has been running and you know it was correctly set up for 12V battery charging. There is a small chance that you have a bad battery acting strangely (possibly an intermittent shorted cell) that could cause your charger to have abnormal behavior. If you have seen abnormal charge behavior on your Xantrex panel, like a charge cycle where you are using more current constantly then you did in the past then suspect a battery issue might play a role here. If you have an external coach monitor panel you could watch the battery voltage and see if it reacts and shows any high voltage level change when your charging system goes through this strange sequence and error message. It could also happen in a manner that is too fast to see any voltage reaction on your panel. It is impossible, with the low battery impedence, for the charger to put 24V on a 12V battery system. That being said this is serious given the charger is trying to pump enough current into a 12V system to trip the main 50 Amp breaker. So any attempt to use or test this system should be done after some source of the problem may have been found.

If you have a reasonable knowledge of your battery wiring you could reduce the overall alternator and external battery charger load by removing some jumpers and going to a two house and two starting battery bank. Your best bet would be to call Xantrex and see if they have seen this issue and what needs to be done next. It would seem most likely that the voltage sensing circuits in the Xantrex are failing or the internal microprocessor programming has become corrupted and is failing. If you know that your batteries are good then not much else is involved here. Hope this helps.

Later Ed

[Dave Cunningham]

Thanks, guys, I am going to disconnect four of the six deep cycles and see if I can get the coach started, one thing I forgot to mention is that all this coincidentally started when I was trying to check the echo charger, and pulled a 20 amp fuse that I think was inline to the charger, I replaced it , but when I pushed it back in to its yellow housing, it broke the glass on the fuse, the fuse itself seemed to be fine , and it was only for the echo charger anyway so I figured it wouldn't make any difference
I don't even have a test light with me but it does not seem like the echo charger is working, it has one led on it , but I think it only lights red when it is overheating. ( 2000 marquis by the way)

Dave

[Gerald Farris]

 Dave,
Your Echo Charger has 2 wires running to it. They each contain an inline 20 amp fuse. One wire is the input voltage from the house batteries, and the other wire is the output voltage from the Echo Charger to the chassis batteries. The Echo Charger has nothing to do with whether or not the inverter charges the house batteries.

Your coach has a Prosine inverter, unless it has been changed, and they are not considered to be repairable. If you call the technical support line for Xantrex inverters they can help you with troubleshooting to determine if your inverter is bad. The first thing to do when checking your inverter is to remove all power (battery and shore power) from the inverter for a few minutes to be sure that it resets before powering it back up. If your inverter is defective, you will be much better off if you replace it with a Magnum inverter instead of another Prosine.  

Gerald

[Edward Buker]

Dave,

If I understand the fuse situation, the glass broke but the wire was in tact? The glass has to be in place for the end spacing to be correct with enough tension to make good contact. The Echo Charger is not a charger per say. It is a switch that measures voltage on the house batteries and if they are in a charge mode, with a higher voltage by a specific offeset to the chassis batteries, it basically connects the two banks together with a current limitation of roughly 10 amps, perhaps a bit more. The two fuses that Gerald mentions must be in tact for the connection to be made. The current comes out of the house batteries through one fuse on the input wire to the echo charger and out the other fuse and wire to the chassis batteries. If the house batteries are not being charged by the Inverter Charger the chassis batteries will not be charged either. With the background load on the chassis batteries, even with the battery disconnect switch off, you will have trouble starting within a few days. You need a charging source of some kind connected to the chassis batteries, like a plug in charger capable of at least 20amps continuous duty, when the coach is going to be at rest for more than a couple of days until this problem is fixed.  

You can reduce the load on the alternator or an external temporary charger by reducing the total number of batteries temporarily and that will help save the alternator. You could also certainly charge the house batteries with this temporary charger also.  

Later Ed

[Dave Cunningham]

Thanks guys,
After charging the batteries and getting home, I have diagnosed that the echo charger is indeed bad, but the main problem was that all of the deep cycles were about half full, and were not taking a full charge.  An RV mechanic, friend of mine has suggested that because I don't have a temperature sensor from the batteries to the inverter ( just seems to be missing on the battery end ) I have been overcharging the house batteries resulting in them getting dry. since I just topped them up a few months ago.
Anyway have a new echo charger on the way and I think I will be back in action

Thanks for your help,

Dave

[Gerald Farris]

Dave,
You should check the water level in your house batteries once a month for the average golf cart battery.

Gerald

[Edward Buker]

Dave,

The fact that half the surface of the plates were not covered with an acid water mix may have left your batteries with diminished capacities. That may not be an issue if you never dry camp. Keep an eye on whether or not the charge current stabilizes at very low current values once charged and that you do not have a cell that acts differntly when it comes to how much distilled water needs to be added when you do your maintenance. Battery plates like to be kept wet and when dry do not survive well. If they perform normally then you will be all right. One good thing about golf cart deep cycle batteries is that they are rugged by design and more forgiving.

Later Ed