IDS levelling problem

[Dave Cunningham]

I am having problems with the IDS levelling system on my '03 Marquis.  The system was functioning fine, until a couple of weeks ago.  Then it seemed that the controller started to malfunction.  The system power light would come on and it would go through its diagnostic mode, but then nothing would happen.  After talking to Steve, at Beaver Coach in Bend, he suggested replacing the control panel.  So I ordered one from them at $ 300.00.  Got it today, plugged it in, and the system started to work properly in auto mode.  But timed out before leveling the coach completely.  So reading the directions in the manual, I tried using the ''semi'' mode.  Got to the point where the rear jacks light was flashing, telling me to press until it goes out.  Kept pressing for quite a while.  I could hear the pump, but the light never went out.  Then smoke started coming out of the console, where the controller is mounted.  So I removed the controller, and there does not seem to be anything burnt on the board.  Now nothing works.  The coach is sitting there with the rear jacks extended, with no way to retract them.
I know these systems have been problematic, and I think Beaver Coach usually changes the control system to a completely manual setup.  Now I can't even move it without figuring something out.
Just wondering if anyone may have gone through a similar situation before.  I don't really want to have to take it all the way back to Bend to get it fixed, as I was just there about a month ago.

Thanks,

Dave

[Edward Buker]

Dave,

Bend may warranty the new board. You should not be able to cause it to fail by using a mode that is available by the operation manual. It would seem to me that you need to get another board to be functional again. That being said, if you get a new board, the design may be a marginal design and if you go to manual or semi mode I would use shorter durations of pressing the controller buttons with long pauses and give time to allow the ICs to cool.

Good luck with this. I have the same system and have been lucky enough to have not had a fail. It is expensive, but air leveling conversion is probably the long term answer given that system is supported and well designed by HWH. It has to be converted at the factory.

Later Ed

[Dave Cunningham]

Thanks Ed,

I now have discovered why I have no power at the controller.  When I went to check the breaker, I found out that I now have no power anywhere in the electrical bay.  No idea what I've done now.

[Edward Buker]

This may actually be good news and it sounds like you could use some. It is possible that the leveling system was pulling enough current that something fused and the board may possibly still be good. In the electrical bay there are usually two positive copper busses side by side. The one on the left has a large red lead feeding it, that first goes to a solenoid lug just below the two copper busses. Measure there with a meter and see if you have 12V on the largest wire on the solenoid. If you do not, go back to the battery compartment and there should be several large fuses. Measure on both sides of that fuse to ground. If one side has no voltage it is blown and needs to be replaced. If there is voltage at the big red cable on the solenoid lug but not on the left buss there is a short, approx 8GA wire, leading from the same solenoid lug that the largest wire is on, that travels to the left buss. That wire could have fused. The right copper buss will not have power unless the ignition is on. The fuses in the back battery compartment should be above the batteries on a flat panel area. The one for chassis is the one you are looking for.  I am explaining this for a 2002 Marquis panel and hoping you have the same configuration. Where the black heatsink is below my copper busses, is where the solenoid is that I am referring to.  I have converted mine to a solid state version. Yours will be a round metal can with lugs.
Hope this helps.

Later Ed

[Edward Buker]

Dave,

When you decide to use semi or or some form of manual mode you need to take into account that the hydraulic cylinders have limited travel. The blinking means you are not level but it does not mean that you can be level. What may have happened here is by holding down the button you were running the pump continuously against the load of a fully extended cylinder. The load of extendedly holding down the button also seemed to overheat the circuit board, but it may still be good. With that kind of physical load, it would have created a severe electrical load which fused something in the system.  Better to touch those buttons for a few seconds at a time, and verify that the coach is still responding by continuing to level.  When you reach end of travel, usually the tone of the pumping system changes due to a heavier load, and it is time to stop using that button. Not always easy to hear.

 I have had a time out before and I have sometimes had better luck giving the system another chance by going through the process again. Sometimes when it is just too severe a slope, the time out is where you leave the coach. Your options are to drive up on some suitable blocks to help with leveling or move to another campsite.....I like the other campsite if possible.

 If you find a fuse in the battery compartment that is open, shut off the battery switch that feeds it. Replace it and then momentarily turn the battery swich on while measuring with a meter at the fuse. If you see less than 12V you may still have a heavy electrical load (short somewhere or pump motor still on) and need to resolve that before leaving the switch on.  If the voltage is normal, 12.6V to 13.8V and all seems well, then see if the coach is restored to normal power in the electrical bay. Dave, I do not have any idea what you are comfortable with this or if you even have a meter with you. If this is all Greek to you then certainly get someone out there who is versed in diagnosing electrical systems on RVs. Hope this helps.

Later Ed

[Dave Cunningham]

Ed,

Judging by some of the advise I have seen you leave for myself and others, I would say that you are a little ahead of me in the electrical knowledge department , but I do understand the basics . And after thinking about it last night, I was coming to the same conclusions, I didn't spend much time diagnosing before i had to leave the coach yesterday, but I did check for voltage at the positive terminal of the solenoid that supplies thr left hand buss bar, and there was nothing there. Then I checked in the battery compartment at the main solenoid there, and there was power, and that is as far as I got. Thanks for the location of those fuses, I am going to start there today , and pray that I haven't damaged the board. I think my timing out problem may be related to the pump, it does not seem torun fast enough, I wonder if they are rebuildable ?  There is almost no reason for the system to time out as the coach was sitting very close to level already.

Dave

[Edward Buker]

Dave,

If the system is repeatedly timing out then something is wrong. I would not assume the pump, there could also be a bad ground or 12V connection that is not supplying enough current at voltage to the pump motor. There is also an electrical solenoid as part of that system that runs the pump motor that could have damaged/marginal internal contacts. I would make sure all the visible contacts were clean and good before heading for the pump. I think that system is powered by the chassis battery bank and if you had weak batteries, terminal corrosion, or not fully charged ones, that would have an affect on the pump capacity to provide the required fluid drive within the timing window. If the pump is not running at speed it is probably not the pump but the speed of the motor that drives it. If you get it to run again you could watch the current readout leds on the charger/inverter panel and see if you are getting a large display change for current with the leveling pump running. If you have an echo charger you would see maybe a 10amp increase if the leveling system runs off the chassis batteries. If you see a 40 -80 amp or more load then it runs off of the house battery system. I do not know what the terminals of the motor would read under load. You may be able to put some temporary leads on them and remotely measure while not being under the coach what the voltage drops to under load. I would think any value less than 10.5V would be suspect. On my coach I can lift an entry step to get to the pump, not sure on yours.

Later Ed

[George H. Wall]

Dave,  As an owner of a coach with the IDS system, I learned the HARD and Expensive way, to NOT to attempt to level if your batteries are not FULLY charged, as low voltage will burn up the pump VERY QUICKLY. This is probably NOT your priblem at this time, but just for further info. Good Luck!!!   Henry

[Dave Cunningham]

thanks guys I am working on it right now, went straight to those fuses this morning and sure enough the chassis ANL 250 fuse was blown , just got back from locating one at a car audio shop, and replaced it , hoping the control panel might be still good, no luck, called Larry at Beaver Coach and told him what happened, and believe it or not , he is sending me another one for free, I guess that $4 grand I spent last month bought me some clout. Anyway , thanks for the location of the pump Ed I am heading back out there to start checking connections.
By the way Ken at Beaver Coach said that they can do their conversion to a manual levelling system on the IDS for around $ 1000.00 rather than having to spend $4 thousand -plus for the air levelling, if it got to that point.

Dave

[Edward Buker]

Great news Dave, if you go manual you are responsible to not torque the frame, which mean you go in little steps per ram and simulate what the system was doing....not a problem just something you need to do.  Keep us posted... 250 amps was a lot of current. Make sure all is well.

Later Ed

[Dave Cunningham]

Ed, since last posting ,I checked the breaker that supplies the levelling system , and there was power there, found the supply wire to the panel and there was power there also, so I decided to try the controller one more time and sure enough it fired up, then I tried the manual retract button, as the rear of the coach is still jacked up and it emediately blew the main fuse by the batteries again, so just as an experiment, I plugged in my old control panel and it fied up as well, after the diagnostic process I just pressed the auto button once, and same thing blew the main fuse ( lucky I bought the five pack. They had there ) I am thinking I killed the pump by pressing that button too long,  I located the pump under the stairs, but did not have time left to run any tests on it, like you say it is probably the motor that runs the pump that is the problem , I guess the first step would be to jump the solenoid to see if it still runs.

[Edward Buker]

Dave,

I believe the motor has failed and whenever power is being supplied to it the draw is over 250 amps. Unless you can find a visible short on a lug or wire on the exterior or burned up wire covering shorting to ground or a solenoid at the pump is shorted to ground you will have to deal with the pump motor. I would not jump the solenoid given you will have a burst of current that can be in excess of 250 amps momentarily. The fact that the pump did not take off would indicate a short. I think the solenoid is on the motor housing. That would mean the leads up to the pump are fine. Not much beyond the solenoid but the motor....George may have information on what is need and how to best handle the pump issue.
Later Ed

[Dave Cunningham]

I think your right Ed, I can't believe that in semi mode they tell you to press the blinking button until it goes out, when obviously there is no limit switch to stop the pump when fully extended, the pump in my coach is very hardto hear. Oh well tomorrow I will don the nitrile gloves and get under there, and start ripping it apart.

[Edward Buker]

May the force be with you.....If it is any consolation, the fact that you were timing out leveling, may have mean't the motor was not putting out the HP it should have been anyway and it was on its way out. You just helped it not die a slow death.....

Later Ed

[George H. Wall]

I tend to agree with Ed, that the pump motor is the problem. They fixed me up @ BCS in Bend with a new motor installation. They are very helpful when you need questions answered.  Henry