Water leak question

[Bill Jourdain]

I went to take a look at our 2002 Monterey in storage (it is under cover) and found what I assume is the symptom of a water leak.  On the passenger side wall about half way between the recliner and the dining table, there is a seam in the wall covering that is covered by a small piece of trim.  When I entered the coach, I noticed that this trim piece was on the floor and the seam exposed (the trim had been glued).  Upon closer inspection, it was obvious that this is a place where two pieces of "wall board" come together.  On the side toward the dining table, the wall was slightly bulging (about half way down the wall) but it did not feel wet.  Clearly, the bulging at this seam ejected the trim piece onto the floor.

I assume that I have a leak that has caused water to flow between the interior wall and exterior skin, although I never noticed any signs of this when we traveled or camped in the rain.  Our last trip was in February and we did drive in the rain.

I have a couple of questions.  Realizing that water may end up far and away from where it started, can anyone offer an educated guess as to the best place for me to look to start my search for the origin of this leak.  I live in north Georgia and have no plans to travel to Bend, where it seems most of the good repairs are done, so can anyone suggest a repair facility other than CW?  Would Alliance in Wildwood be the best for this?  They are about 7 hours south of me, but I would not mind the trip to have this repaired correctly.

Any other helpful opinions or advice would be appreciated.  By the way, I am not opposed to attempting to repair this myself, but water intrusion and damage is nothing to trifle with in my opinion and I'm not sure I would do an adequate job.

Thanks.  This forum has been great for many other issues and has made being a Beaver owner a genuine pleasure.

Bill

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Bill,
The Girard awning where it is attached to the coach side is a good place to start. Also, check the screws under the vinyl trim between the roof radius and the side of the coach. Make sure they are tight and that none are rusted. You shouldn't be getting any water in there if the trim is in good shape. The windows are the final place to check. Make sure the sealant around the top of the windows is in good shape. The windows also have sealant between the frame and the side of the coach so the chance of leaks there is fairly low.
Good Luck, Steve

[Andy Clark]

Bill, in addition to Steve's excellent suggestions, I have a couple more:

The "C" channel that holds the vinyl trim Steve mentioned is supposed to be sealed between its upper edge and the roof radius. Check that the sealant has not pulled away from the aluminum, which will allow water intrusion behind the trim and subsequently into the sidewall. It's hard to see. Try to slip an Exacto blade between the aluminum and the sealant.

Also, the vinyl trim does not make a water-tight seal with its "C" channel. In their infinite wisdom, Beaver chose to seal the open ends of the cavity behind the vinyl so that any water that leaks in throughout the length of the trim gradually accumulates inside until it gets to the level of the screws, which will then rust and leak, particularly if they have not been sealed properly. Anyone who doubts this, I have a piece of the old vinyl that came off our Patriot. The inside is moldy and slimy due to water being held there by the sealed ends.

We had massive leaks in the forward right side ceiling/sidewall area until I resealed the aluminum trim, removed and resealed/replaced (with S/S) the old screws holding the "C" channel on, and finally replaced the vinyl, leaving the ends open so that the cavity behind it can have airflow through it in order to dry. Sorta like the way rocker panels in cars are kept dry by air flowing through them.

Hope this helps

Andy

[Keith Oliver]

Bill, Andy:

I am on the hunt for the cause of a similar bulge in the wall in roughly the same place.  I suspect the screws behind the channel that covers the roof to side joint.  I had a similar problem above the drivers side window, that eventually settled to a trickle when I recaulked a gap between the channel and the fibreglass where the channel was sitting proud of the roof panel.  That trickle has so far defied all of my attempts to stop it, so the last place to look seems to be the screws.
On the passenger side that solution is less intuitive, since any water coming in at that location will have to get past the Girard awning before descending to where the wall shows a bulge.  On close inspection, the awning attachment seems tight, so is not a viable suspect.  As I will be replacing the wall covering in the course of an interior upgrade, I will dig into the bulge and see if that leads to more of a solution.  

Andy:  What was your source for a replacement plastic insert?  Mine appears to be continuous for about 35 feet on each side of the coach.  There is a second stripe of the same stuff at the bottom of the fibregalss sides.  Both have discoloured badly and cleaning with Toluene only gets part of it clean.

[Carol Moffett]

All of our leak problems on the passenger side of our coach have come from the Girard awning.  In the early models they were VERY poorly installed (the actual units themselves, not just the sealant) and are no fun to fix.  We had to have ours removed (once) and completely re-sealed (twice) and it still leaks.  In order to do this the upper cabinets on that side need to be removed and the fridge pulled out, in order to get to the bolts.  Very frustrating.  

I wish you the best of luck!  

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Carol,
I agree. I ran a bead of sealant along the complete junction where the awning meets the coach side. I also put sealant on each of the rivet heads. That has sealed mine. If I have more problems I may need to remove and reseal it (yuk).
Steve

[Keith Oliver]

Steve:  Good to know that you had success by sealing the Girard to the wall.  I have been trying to get all of the clear silicone that some PO (previous owner) used out of the grooves in the Girard, without much success.  You will know from my previous rants on this board that I am no fan of silicone sealers.  I haven't been able to find a drawing of the Girard that shows which, if any, of those grooves might leak.  The PO apparently took the view that if you fill every one with sealer you might win.  I suspect only the top and bottom edges need any attention, along with the rivets.

Above my drivers side window I have sealed the gutter to the cap and, when that didn't stop the leak, I took off the cover over that piece of the cap/wall joint above the window and sealed that.  My leak there is down from a deluge to a few drips, so there is still some work to do.  I now suspect the screws behind the plastic, so am looking for a source of new plastic before I rip the existing one apart.

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Keith,
The silicon alternatives I've seen are all white or black in color. Do you have a clear one to recommend?
Steve

[Gerald Farris]

Steve,
The best alternative that I have found to the much hated silicone sealers that some people use is Lexel. It adheres much better than silicone, is perfectly clear, and is paintable. It can be found at most Ace Hardware Stores.

Gerald

[Keith Oliver]

Steve:  I will try Gerald's suggestion if I ever see it.  Otherwise, any good marine sealer, so long as you read the label and get the kind you need for the application.  I personally like Sikaflex brand and 3M.  I have used both on my boat for years and am very happy with the results.  Those don't come in clear, but I don't mind white or black, depending on the location.

Silicones have long been banned from my boat and I am trying to get rid of silicones whenever I find some on the Beaver.  Various POs have loaded it up with clear silicone, every bit of which has failed.

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Gerald, Keith,
Thx for the info. I've got an ACE just up the street from the house. It will give me something to do this summer  
Steve

[Joel Ashley]

I'll second Gerald's suggestion.  Got a tube of Lexel at a local Ace a couple years ago, and it does behave better than silicone, although it looks similar.

Joel

[Ron Rowe]

Keith

Home Hardware carries Lexel in Canada

[Keith Oliver]

Thx Ron.  I have a nearby Home hardware in Ganges, which I will check.

[Edward Buker]

I know that the Girard awning mounting in these coaches has been leak prone. I know that removing the awning, cabinets, and resealing the recess box and reassembling everything is a huge project. My coach has had no leaks on the passenger side and I credit this "flashing" job that was already done on this coach before I bought it. It is some form of rubber strip, perhaps some roofing membrane material, that probably has been bedded in clear Lexel. It has been on the coach for the four years I have owned it and all I have done is use some 303 Protectant on the rubber once a year. The front edge and back edge is also sealed with the same clear sealant. You cannot see the rubber flashing unless you are on the coach roof. The sealant is lapped over the rubber on the top edge and the bottom. It is neat enough where they probably taped it off before they ran the sealant.

 I do not know who did the work but I would certainly try this approach before I would spend the time or money on the box sealing version of the fix. Not much to lose....

Later Ed