Oil Change

[Mitch Dashiell]

Gerald - I am doing my first engine oil change on my 1998 Marquis C-12.  I have had them done at at Cat service center in the past.  The drain plug in the side of the oil pan is an inch or more above the bottom of the pan.  This leave a lot of oil in the pan.  There are two large bolt heads located lower, one at the front and one at the back of the oil pan on the same side as the drain plug.  Should they be removed to drain the remaining oil?  Why would the drain plug not be in the bottom of the oil pan to make a complete drain easy?

[Gerald Farris]

Mitch,
Your engine should have four drain plugs. They are located on the side of the oil pan, near the bottom edge. There are two drain plugs on each side of the engine. From the best of my memory they have about a 1 1/2 inch head and have an "O" ring seal. Just pick the one that looks like it is the lowest to thoroughly the pan. I normally use the one on the driver's, toward the front of the coach.  

Caterpillar did not know what the engine was going to be installed in when it was designed, therefore the multiple drain plug design was necessary to facilitate changing the oil in various types of installations, including marine.

Gerald  

[Mitch Dashiell]

Thank you very much!!  I knew there must be a lot of oil still in the pan.  I could only drain about 7 gal. through the drain plug.  With about a gal. in the filter that leaves about 2 gal. below the oil drain plug I removed.

If you don't mind another question?  I read the threads about changing the fuel filters and the warning about inducing air in the system.  I also deleloped a fuel leak from the O rings on the Winn clear plastic canister.  I replacedd the O rings and the leak has stopped.  I have an air purge switch in my system and I have tried 3-4 times to purge the air from the clear filter bowl.  It still is only about half full of fuel and the top half is air.  I do not believe there was any air in it when I took it apart to replace the O rings.  If I start it up like this, will I have an air lock problem?  Located next to the Winn filter is a canister filter with a air type (Schrader valve?, not sure of the proper name) valve on the top.  If I depress the center of the valve, I get clear fuel flow and no air bubbles.

[Gerald Farris]

Mitch,
The engine in your coach should take 9 gallons of oil for an oil and filter change.

The clear pre-strainer that you are referring to in your fuel system normally has some air in its upper portion, usually from 1/4 to 1/2 of the visible portion will be air. Normally the air volume will increase when the engine is running, so if the fuel level in the clear pre-strainer does not go much below 1/3 with the engine running and you have bleed all of the air from the secondary filter, you are good to go. The fuel volume in the clear pre-strainer will increase as you drive if there are no air leaks into the system.

You said that you changed the fuel filter, but you describer a "canister" filter next to the Winn filter. The filter that you describer as a canister is your Caterpillar secondary filter, and the one that you should have changed. The Winn filter is a 30 micron primary filter that is designed to remove the big stuff (sticks and leaves) from the fuel, but the secondary filter is a 2 micron filter that cleans the fuel to prevent a clogged injector. I only change my Winn primary filter every 3 or 4 years, but the secondary filter is changed on a regular basis, and I carry a spare one in the coach at all times.

Gerald    

[Mitch Dashiell]

Gerald  -  Thanks again.  The Winn filter is about half full of fuel so it sounds like I am OK.  You missundestood my comment about reading the thread on changing fuel filters.  I did not change my secondary filter.  I just had a leak from the Winn filter and I read the threads on changing fuel filters just for information.   It has been two years since the secondary fuel filter was last changed.  I have put about 20,000 miles on the coach since the last time it was changed.  Do you recommend an annual change on the secondary filter?

[Gerald Farris]

Mitch,
Caterpillar service recommendations are to change the secondary fuel filter annually, but I do not change mine that often. However, I have no problem with changing the filter beside the road if it becomes restricted, and I have had to do that twice in the last ten years as a fulltimer.

If you want to guard against setting beside the road, next to me changing your fuel filter, I would say that every 2 years is minimum, with every year being preferable.  

Gerald

[Mitch Dashiell]

Thanks again, Gerald.  I have an extra secondary filter and I think I will change it and get a back up to carry with me.  There are two other filters in the same compartment that are marked 'fuel filter'.  One is about twice as long as the other and the smaller of the two is about the same size as the secondary filter.  About the size of a standard auto oil filter.  Both of these other two filters have conventional bottoms with no wires, etc.   I have not tried to trace the lines attached to them so I am not sure what their purpose is.  I bet you know?

[Gerald Farris]

Mitch,
I am not positive how your filter bay is setup, but I think that you have a primary fuel filter (the one with the wires at the bottom), a secondary fuel filter (the long one), and a hydraulic filter for the engine driven hydraulic system.
 
The other two engine related filters for your coach are, the coolant filter (probably on the right frame rail beside the engine), and the engine oil filter (on driver's side of engine). If you are still running ethylene glycol coolant in your coach, the coolant filter should be changed annually with the right strength need release additive to maintain the SCA level in your coolant. But if you have changed to ELC, the coolant filter is no longer needed and the hoses to it should be plugged at the engine because of their high failure rate. If the coolant filter remains in service, the hoses to it should be checked annually and changed every 3 or 4 years, preferably with high temperature silicone hoses.

Gerald      

[Keith Oliver]

"The Winn filter is a 30 micron primary filter that is designed to remove the big stuff (sticks and leaves) from the fuel"
LOL

On my boat, I run a 10 micron primary and the 2 micron secondary (Volvo TAMD41, x2).  I had to change the 2 micron filters last summer, for the first time since I put the engines in, over 1500 hours (at 50 mph average, that is 75000 miles)  and 12 yrs before.  I think the 10 micron filters get changed about every 4 years, or 500 hrs (25000 miles).  I keep an eye on the clear bowl and when it starts looking cruddy, I change them.  I have noticed a huge improvement  in the quality of fuel over the 19 years I have had this boat, and no longer fear any "sticks and leaves" getting into the fuel system.  I suspect truck stops provide even cleaner fuel, due to their much higher volume than marine fuel stations.  

The manufacturer's recommendations are going to guarantee that you never have a clogged filter, but will see you spending a lot more money and time doing filter changes than is necessary to keep running with clean fuel.

Oil filtration is a different issue altogether.

[Joel Weiss]

Mitch,
Caterpillar service recommendations are to change the secondary fuel filter annually, but I do not change mine that often. However, I have no problem with changing the filter beside the road if it becomes restricted, and I have had to do that twice in the last ten years as a fulltimer.

If you want to guard against setting beside the road, next to me changing your fuel filter, I would say that every 2 years is minimum, with every year being preferable.  

Gerald

My secondary filter costs ~$20 for a genuine CAT item; the Racor 30 micron primary is less than $30.  If I'm going to invest in an annual PM-1 service that is going to cost $250-$300 anyway, I'm not going to try to save a few bucks by not replacing the filters. JMO

[Mitch Dashiell]

Gerald:

I believe I understand the items in the filter compartment now.  The Winn pre-strainer (I was also calling it a filter), the primary filter (with the wires at the bottom) which is located right next to the Winn pre-strainer, the secondary fuel filter (the long one), and a hydraulic filter.  The hydraulic filter was turned so I could not see any markings that identified it and I was thinking it was another fuel filter.  I got a mirror and looked at the back of the filter and it does say Hydraulic Filter.

As to the coolant filter, I am using EL coolant and I have heard you recommend removing the filter and just have not done it.  It is on my list of things to do.  I am not sure if the lines to it have EVER been changed on my 1998 Marquis.  I guess I need to do that before we hit the road again.  We have a little over 98K miles on the coach (second owner) and tend to take lonesome roads like the ALCAN and mostly secondary roads when possible as we find them more interesting that the Interstates.

Once again, I greatly appreciate your tech assistance.  It is one of the best advantages of membership in BAC!!!!

[Gerald Farris]

Mitch,
If your coolant filter is still in the system, I promise you the hoses, or at least the one that runs by the manifolds, has been changed at least once, but probably twice. I have rarely seen the hose that runs by the manifold last longer than the 7 years or 70,000 mile range, but I guess that there are some that have.

Gerald

[LarryNCarolynShirk]

Mitch,

It is a lot easier to plug those hoses now, than wait to get towed first.  When the hose breaks, it is not a slow leak.  All the coolant will leave the system in a very short time, and you coach will shut down to protect itself.  It happened to me 15 miles from home at the beginning of a trip on I-8 in the middle of San Diego.  I was barely able to get to the side of the highway before it stopped.

Larry

[Mitch Dashiell]

Thanks, Larry and Gerald.   I'm convinced.  I will quit putting it off.  Do you recall the size plugs I will need?  I can pick them up before I disconnect the lines if you do.  Otherwise, I will disconnect the lines, figue out the plugs and purchase them.

[Gerald Farris]

Mitch,
The plug that goes in the manifold I am pretty sure is a 1/2 inch pipe plug. The plug that goes below the alternator is a hydraulic plug with an "O" ring, but I do not remember the thread size.

Gerald