Battery Question

[Don Hircock]

When batteries go bad is it normal for them to get very very warm to the touch.  I know I need new batteries (installed 5-06) but the left bank of the 4 batteries is very warm and using a lot of water which is common for bad batteries.  Just added a gallon today in all four after two weeks.  I'm just concerned about how hot they are.  

[Edward Buker]

Don,

If the charging system is not producing an over voltage condition boiling them out then it looks like some of the batteries have some shorted cells. This can be hard on the charging systems. I would change them out for new ones sooner rather then later. If that was not possible I would turn the charger off, disconnect the batteries and have each tested. If you can find two that are still acceptable you could use just the two 6v batteries as a 12v pair (same wiring configuration as they are now) until you can replace them all.

Later Ed

[Don Hircock]

Ed,

Thanks for reply.  My mind was telling me about the same thing, even in my electrical challenged state.  Hadn't thought about taking out the two batteries that are getting very hot.  I believe the charger is not over charging, they just are not accepting a charge.  I tested all four with my hydrometer and the two that are getting so hot are all very bad.  The other two batteries each have one bad cell and the other cells are close to bad but that's the best I can do.  I did a bit of studying and decided to take the two worst batteries out of the equation.  Only thing that threw me a bit was that there are two main ground cables, one hooked to each bank of batteries.  Finally decided that if that ground cable was hooked up it should stay hooked up.  Crossed my fingers when I turned everything back on and it appears to all be working.  No more two very hot batteries is the good thing.

We are heading to Sequim and have an appointment at Eric's RV Performance center for the 10th, may be able to get it done on the third when we get there.  Found them through Interstate Batteries.  Just checked their web site and I believe I had some work done on my hitch by them at Quartzsite this past Jan after the Beaver Rally.  If they are as good about this as they were on my hitch I'll be very pleased.  

One other question, if you're running down the road and turn on the generator, it does the charging of the batteries rather than the alternator.  This has been my assumption and have run the gen a lot the past couple legs of the trip as I don't want to fry the alternator.  Thanks again.

Don

[Edward Buker]

Don,

If you are running the generator and the charging portion of the inverter is on then that is doing the bulk of the charging. The alternator will also be contributing but does not have to do all the work. The hygrometer will tell you the charge state of each cell. Now that the worst of the batteries are out of the mix you may find that the two remaining 6V batteries may charge to a better state. I'm not saying they are good just that the two batteries that were hot had to be pulling most of the current and holding the voltage level down. They would actually pull current from the other two batteries also. You may have saved an alternator and possibly your Xantrex.

If the two grounds go to the same place on the chassis than you could use one and tape the other one off so it cannot short to a plus terminal anywhere and then tie wrap the cable to the other ground cable to hold it in place. I assume that you tied the two ground wires to one negative terminal on one 6V battery, the plus of that battery to the minus of the second 6V battery, and finally the plus of the second battery to the coach + lead. That is two 6V batteries in series to make one 12V source.

There is a Costco also in Sequim. You may be able to take your four over and trade them in for 4 new golf cart batteries of the same size if they carry them there. Most likely they do. Just need to have your house battery switch off, AC off so the charger can not fire up, and keep the Plus lead from the coach isolated from ground until you reinstall, if the solar charger is working.

Later Ed

[Don Hircock]

Thanks for info about the running of the gen.  Things are much better with the two batteries out of the hookup.  The two remaining batteries are running at 13.3v now instead of 12.8 as it was before.  They were hot enough that the temperature sensor was cutting back the voltage by .7, at least that is what the manual says.  To late to save the Xantrex  It was replaced with a Magnum a little over a year ago.  Liked the Xantrex better, on the AGS portion at least, as it gave you more flexibility.

You assumed right about how I hooked it up, in series with both the ground wires on the one negative terminal.  Don't know if they go to the same place on chassis or not but this is working fine so not going to worry about it or try to change it.

Good to know there is a Costco in Sequim.  I'm in need of some of their NY Strip Steaks.  I don't plan on doing this myself as it is going to take some time and effort to clean the tray up properly and don't really want to put the bulging batteries in my car.  Might save a few bucks but would rather put my time into enjoying the area.  Thanks Ed, I do appreciate your assistance.

Don

[Don Hircock]

From my present location I have approximately 4 hours to arrive in Sequim on Tuesday to get my batteries changed.  Would it damage anything if I disconnected all four house batteries for this trip?

[Gerald Farris]

Don there are a few possibilities were you could cause a problem in disconnecting all house batteries and driving, depending upon how the bird system is hooked into the house 12V wiring. If your two remaining batteries are not shorted, I would not disconnect them because they act as a buffer between the charging system and the 12V house loads.

Gerald  

[Edward Buker]

Don, the batteries absorb spikes and filter the waveforms that come from the alternator and house charger, a buffer as Gerald pointed out for current surges also as needed. You were in a good spot with the voltages that you were getting with just the two batteries. Unless something has changed to make you worry, just check your water level and if O.K. you should be fine. If something has changed and you are worried then you have the toad to go get some batteries to change these out where you sit. If they are not boiling out the water in specific cells and the current draw is normal you should be fine as you are with the two.

Later Ed

[Don Hircock]

Thank you Ed and Gerald.  That is why I asked as I didn't know.  I was just trying to think of a way to ease any stress on the gen, charger and alternator.  I'll check the batteries tomorrow and make certain water level is up on all.  I've only had the charger on for a couple hours a day but they do warm up some during this time, not boiling though as the other two batteries were.  This has been a learning experience.  I had expected that when the batteries went clear bad it would be like in the car.  Just won't start and figured these just wouldn't work, which they don't.  Didn't expect all the other problems associated with it.  I knew they were getting weak, just not this weak.  I check them about every six months with my hydrometer to see how they are doing.  I guess over 7 years out of a set of house batteries isn't too bad.  I make it to Sequim
and get all taken care of I'll let you know how Eric's RV is.

A side note, we are close to Roslyn (Northern Exposure Fame) to go to their Farmer's market today.  This one actually had a lot of Veggies and Fruits and they are reasonably priced.  Had an ear of corn tonight and it is almost as good as the corn grown in Olathe, CO.  They also were having their annual log competition.  Seen similar on TV before but it is better in person.  The chain saws with V8 engines on them are out of sight.

[Don Hircock]

All's well that ends well is what they say.  We pulled into Eric's RV Performance after about a 3.5 hour drive.  Went in and saw Eric and he said well, lets start on it now.  He had been having so much fun that he didn't realize it was 11:45 and would be lunch hour, so showed me where I could park it and to bring it in at 1:00  Had it parked at 1pm and they started on it immediately.  Tech remarked about how warm the batteries were even after sitting for over an hour.  While I was there Darlene came to get us checked into the park about a mile away.  While checking in she was asked by Bill (BAC member) if I was getting the batteries fixed and that we had made it in o.k.  He follows the forum so knew the saga.  That was pretty cool.

While driving here I kept track of the volts and amp on the Aladdin.  It was running 13.8v and between 50-60 amps.  Magnum panel was in Float mode and 13.8 volts and around 13 amps. (Darlene checked it a couple times, I wasn't doing that and driving too).  Does this mean the alternator was kicking that much more juice into the batteries than the generator?  We get back out on the road will be another test for how all is working but it appears we are in fine shape.  I have never seen the Magnum go to its fourth state of full battery as it does now.  Glad I have new batteries.  Oh, they were $129.99 apiece plus $99 labor.  Costco would probably have been less but I didn't have to any of the grunt work and was in and out in a little over an hour.

I highly recommend Eric's RV here in Sequim.  In fact, when we leave on the 17th I'm going by there and have a new Pac brake put on.  This one hasn't been working very good and think it is time to upgrade to the newer model.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Don

[Edward Buker]

Don,

Happy all is well and that they did such a good job for you. Nice to have a shop like that to rely on. The current that is supplied by each source is a function of the regulator profile and every charging system is different. It was good that both sources were supplying current and that you limited it to two batteries instead of four. it is clear that if they were abnormally hot that there were still shorted cells involved that can never be satisfied. You should be good to go now.

Later Ed