Winterizing

[Dean Johnson]

Hello All,
It's that time of year, the last trip of the season is over and I'm now faced with having to winterize. I've gleaned, or maybe assumed that some out there do not go through this process. We live in the Seattle area and last winter was quite mild.

This is a 2005 Monterey with Aqua Hot, ice maker and washer/dryer. I have a shelter for the coach but it is open on the front and back. I have the coach plugged in to 110v. If I were to leave the Aqua Hot on (electric) and the furnace at about 50, additionally we have a oil filled radiator heater inside, would that be sufficient to keep the basement warm? With the heater inside, I can keep the interior at about 50 with no problem.

I checked with a local service center and they quoted about $60 to winterize the unit, which seems like a decent price.

Any opinions, comments appreciated.
Thanks

[Joel Ashley]

The problem with your HydroHot is that in storage operation it can fail and you may not know it until it's too late.  If it's near your house where you can regularly check it during a NW cold snap, that's a plan.  You can monitor electrical breakers easily also, for both the HHot and your heater.  When our coach isn't winterized, I set the thermostat at 40 whenever overnight temps approach 30 and may stay there or lower for long.  The bay thermostat is preset around that temp also.

If on the other hand the coach isn't easily monitored, I'd winterize it myself or have it done.  A frozen hydronic exchanger is many thousands of dollars.  Simply blowing out the water system with a compressor is inadequate protection against that loss.  Pumping RV antifreeze throughout is time consuming but not difficult, but at the very least pump until it comes out all the hot faucets.

If I've done that much, I'd might as well do the rest, cold lines, water bay shower, inside shower, toilet, icemaker (or drain its solenoid), a couple cups in the drum cycled once through the washer/dryer, and some in each drain to protect traps.

Joel

[Dean Johnson]

Joel,
Thanks for the reply to my post.  The service center I spoke with said they would not pump RV antifreeze through the water lines but drain, blow them out and put the pink stuff in the traps. The ice maker would have to be dealt with obviously and does winterizing the Aqua Hot involve pumping the Pink stuff through all the water lines?

Also, I'm not sure if I have basement heat or a thermostat that controls that. How would I check that?

Thanks,

Dean

[Stan Simpson]

Dean,

To protect the HH in cold weather, blowing out the lines is not sufficient, because there will  always be water left in the coils. Yes, you need to pump the pink stuff until the hot and cold side of each faucet runs pink. Then put some in the sink and shower drains, and the toilet.

Stan

[Orman Claxton]

Dean
 The Basement thermostat is located in bay in front of rear tire. on passenger side.
Trust me You do want to pump antifreeze through ALL the domestic water lines, including the washer machine. and ice maker.
Replacement for that unit as around $8,000.00  

[Joel Ashley]

I think others adequately answered as I would.  Whoever your service center is, I'd find another.  Or they didn't realize you had a hydronic system.  If I was pressed for time, after draining the manifold and tanks, and blowing the entire system, as I indicated I'd at least pump RV through to the hot faucets.  Orman spotted the bay stat for you and it is automatic, preset, and not adjustable... as long as the HydroHot is functioning, the bays should be fine;  you don't need to check it, but might want to look so you know exactly where it is.

The icemaker solenoid, behind the fridge, should have foil-covered heat tape around it.  It automatically activates off the 12v. batteries when the outside air gets cold enough to threaten.  Nevertheless, I manually cycle the icemaker while blowing the water system, to help water out of the solenoid.  You can also disconnect and drain the In and Out lines at the solenoid, or even cycle the icemaker while pumping antifreeze until it runs out the ice tray filler port, but I've never gone that far.

Like Portland, Seattle's winter weather is mild, but recent years have brought mid-teen temps. once a year.  If we might take a winter trip to the coast and so I haven't winterized with pink stuff, I only go out and activate hydronics and plug in whenever long freeze threatens or guests here sleep in the coach overnight.  Unlike you we are parked uncovered, so our solar system keeps the battery bank up nearly year-round without plugging in.  I've found no need to panic when sub zero impends, as bay and interior temps seem well insulated, staying safe on their own unless the cold stays for half a day or more.  Regardless, I monitor conditions and act accordingly.

Joel

[Joel Ashley]

A similar icemaker valve with foil heat tape.

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

As Gerald noted awhile back, wintering south of I-10 seems a lot simpler.....
Steve

[Carol Moffett]

Hello!
   Because I am very interested in how everything works and I must always know what is going on, lol, I have a couple questions on this subject.  Undoubtedly, they may be dumb questions but, oh well, I am going to ask them anyway!

1.  Is there any reason to worry about the Aqua Hot freezing if it is plugged into 50 amps, and ONLY plugged in, no diesel on at all?
2.  Would the water tank need to be full?
3.  Would the water pump need to be on?
4.  Am I mistaken in the thought that if the RV is full of anti-freeze it would be un-usable and if it was to be stayed in, say during a power outage, then all systems would need to be flushed and then re-winterized once it is no longer being used?

   Ha, ha, ha!  Told ya!  Yet I am forging on!...  
We live in Port Angeles WA, and the winters tend to be more mild than not but we do have the occasional cold snap.  This is our first "Aqua Hot" as our '98 Patriot had a Hurricane system and we NEVER winterized it.  Nor have we ever used any anti-freeze.  We typically would just drain the low points, leave all faucets open and one electric heater, w/ thermostat, left inside the coach.  For 5 years we never had any problems doing this BUT we think this Aqua Hot do-hicky is a different animal and want to do things right!

   I appreciate all the info I can get to understand this...(and I am not telling Keith I posted this!  LOL!)  "Silly Wife!"
Thanks guys!
Carol

[Orman Claxton]

Hello Carol
The Aqua-Hot Do-Hicky is really is really a simple system.
If you are plugged in to your 50 amp service  with no chance of power loss, you should have no problems with the Aqua-Hot
However you will still be subject to the domestic water freezing though out the rest of the coach.
If you have more questions, feel free to contact me,
Mean while enjoy all the nice rainy WA. weather. in P A  

[Bill Sprague]

1.  Is there any reason to worry about the Aqua Hot freezing if it is plugged into 50 amps, and ONLY plugged in, no diesel on at all?
2.  Would the water tank need to be full?
3.  Would the water pump need to be on?
4.  Am I mistaken in the thought that if the RV is full of anti-freeze it would be un-usable and if it was to be stayed in, say during a power outage, then all systems would need to be flushed and then re-winterized once it is no longer being used?  

(Orman posted while I was still typing!  He is right as usual.)

Carol,

1.  Yes.  If the power goes out, the Aqua Hot electric element fails and it is below freezing you risk cracking the inner coils and it is VERY expensive to fix that.   The problem is that the failure of a single part will make for an expensive repair.  Yes, the elements do burn out.  Mine has and it was the day before a week long cold snap near Tacoma.
2.  No, the water tank's state of fullness has nothing to do with the Aqua-Hot system.    
3.  No, the water pump does not have to be on.  It has nothing to do with the internal workings of the Aqua-Hot other than pushing fresh water through it.
4.  You can use the motorhome when it is winterized if the power goes out.  The generator will provide power and the Aqua-Hot will still provide heat, even with the pink stuff in it.   Gallon bottles of water are cheap.   A half dozen would be enough for flushing, drinking and even washing for the typical PNW power outage.

Flushing and re-winterizing are each 10 minute jobs once you've done it and have the parts.  It is the only way to be completely worry free.   The only downside is the price of the the pink stuff.  I tend to need 4 or 5 gallons.   I usually can find it on promo sales for around $3.  $15 is easy insurance compared to the several thousand dollar repair job.  

If the motorhome is parked where I can keep an eye on it, the electric element alone is enough to keep the entire motorhome from freezing down to about 25 degrees.  I leave the thermostats at 50 with the electric element on.  Below 25 I can run the diesel part of the Aqua-Hot.   I don't think I need to winterize it with pink stuff if I am where I can monitor it.  

If I'm far enough away where I can't watch the motorhome, I will winterize with pink stuff.

We've made it through 10 winters and several repairs with our Aqua/Hydro Hot.  I'm beginning to understand it!  Call me if you have any questions.  

[Carol Moffett]

Thank you,  Bill and Orman!   This makes me feel much better.   Keith and I can talk about it and mull it over all day long but in the end we have to admit that we just don't know for sure,  despite how logical it sounds.   NOW we know!   I will sleep better having all this confirmed!
Thanks again,  guys,  and we WILL call if we have any more questions!   You guys, and this forum, are awesome!      Oh,  and Orman?   Next week is supposed to be fantastically sunny!   Yea!

Carol
PS... This WOULD make a great video!    

[Gary Winzenburger]

Hello Carol
The Aqua-Hot Do-Hicky is really is really a simple system.
If you are plugged in to your 50 amp service  with no chance of power loss, you should have no problems with the Aqua-Hot
However you will still be subject to the domestic water freezing though out the rest of the coach.
If you have more questions, feel free to contact me,
Mean while enjoy all the nice rainy WA. weather. in P A  

Can you get by using 30 AMP service only? Living near Nashville, TN, we'll get temps down in the twenty's and occasional teens, but not for long, so I want to plug my 1997 Marquis in, being able to use it for long weekend trips, but don't want to use the pink stuff. I hope to put one portable heater in the utility bay and one in the kitchen. Hopefully, that'll be enough.

[Gerald Farris]

Gary,
You will need to either leave the diesel burner or the electric element in the Aqua Hot on to prevent freeze damage in the basement and in the Aqua Hot unit itself. So with the Aqua Hot unit running, there should be no need for space heaters in the coach if you set the thermostat on 40 degrees or as close to that as you can get. The Aqua Hot unit will run OK on 30 amp service and prevent freeze damage in the entire coach at the temperatures that you mentioned.

The only flaw to using this approach to prevent freeze damage is that you have no protection if you have a power failure or an Aqua Hot malfunction. So if you decide on this approach, to be on the safe side, you will need to check the coach for proper operation before every cold snap, because a frozen Aqua Hot is very expensive.

Gerald    

[Bill Sprague]

....The only flaw to using this approach to prevent freeze damage is that you have no protection if you have a power failure or an Aqua Hot malfunction. So if you decide on this approach, to be on the safe side, you will need to check the coach for proper operation before every cold snap, because a frozen Aqua Hot is very expensive.

Gerald    

I have worked out a somewhat complicated back up plan to power failure or Aqua Hot malfunction.  It involves getting the genset to start for power failures and small heaters coming on for Aqua Hot malfunctions with thermostats from Lowe's.  I use a 30 amp connection where I store the motorhome.  

Details would take some creative writing.  If anyone wants details I would enjoy showing them.  Writing about it would take some effort.