Hydraulic Leveling

[Jerry Emert]

Karl, I'm going to pick it up Monday.  I'm sure I will have more questions then and in the following weeks.  Thanks to all so far.

Update and question:  The dealer really didn't have there stuff together for delivery.  The deal I made with them was that every major item had to be functional.  They were really quiet at first and then told me that they had had technicians working on the hydraulic portion of the leveling system for two days and since the system was no longer in production they couldn't figure out what was wrong with it.  They said they were trying to get someone from Monaco to help them out.  I called and checked on their progress today and it seems that they are at a standstill.  The salesman basically said that they weren't going to fix it.
I know that y'all basically said that the air is sufficient to hold the coach level for a few days. They said they aired it up and it lasted for 2 days.  Now for the question, worse case scenario, what would it cost to fix the system, I know, you don't know whats wrong so hard to answer.  I don't know anything about it but I'm assuming that the problem is affecting the whole system and it's not an easy one.  Is there something in the system that someone not experienced on the IDS system might miss that would affect the whole thing?
I guess its not a deal breaker for me but I want to get something from them to make up for the loss of the system.  Thanks in advance.
Jerry

[Edward Buker]

Jerry,

Beaver Coach Sales has a manual control electrical replacement system that they engineered if it is the controller. You can call them in Bend OR to get a price. If it were me I would have the coach converted to air leveling and the cost for that is around $7000 if I remember right. The HWH factory in Moscow Indiana has converted several of these coaches from IDS hydraulic leveling to an automatic air system. If the sellers would further discount the coach by that amount it may be worth your while. Check with HWH to verify what I have indicated here regarding price and application.

Later Ed

[Jerry Emert]

Jerry,

Beaver Coach Sales has a manual control electrical replacement system that they engineered if it is the controller. You can call them in Bend OR to get a price. If it were me I would have the coach converted to air leveling and the cost for that is around $7000 if I remember right. The HWH factory in Moscow Indiana has converted several of these coaches from IDS hydraulic leveling to an automatic air system. If the sellers would further discount the coach by that amount it may be worth your while. Check with HWH to verify what I have indicated here regarding price and application.

Later Ed

Thanks Ed.  It's my understanding that it has a double system, air and hydraulic.  I've been told that the air system does level and keep the coach level all by itself.  Am I missing something?  

[Gerald Farris]

Jerry,
Monaco probably knows very little about the SMC leveling system that was produced for Beaver by IDS. The only experts that I know of on that system are the people at BCS (Beaver Coach Sales). They have even designed and built a replacement control panel to convert the system to a manual leveling system if the automatic control module fails, because a replacement is no longer available. I think that the retrofit from automatic to manual is about $1200, but you should call them to be sure. Since I do not know what is wrong with the system, I can not be sure that is the problem, but I can not think of anything else in the system that a qualified mechanic could not readily repair. Sometimes, the automatic control modules just need to be reprogramed, but it is very difficult to find someone to do that.

Normally the air suspension will stay up for weeks if there are no leaks, but it will not level the coach without an air leveling system. A leveling system is necessary because many RV parks do not have level pads, and if you are just setting on your suspension, you will be as unlevel as the pad you are parked on, and believe me, some are really bad. In fact there is a park that I stay in sometimes in Las Vegas that has some pads that are so unlevel that the coach runs out of suspension travel before it levels unless I drive on axle up on wooden blocks before leveling.  

If you get more information about the problem with the system, perhaps we can be of more assistance, but that is about all of the information that I can give you until I know the specific problem. If you want to talk to someone that knows the system very well, call BCS and talk to Ken Carpenter.

Gerald  

[Gerald Farris]

Jerry,
If the coach has both leveling systems, and the air leveling system is functioning properly, the coach will stay level for years as long as the batteries stay charged, because it will check the coach leveling about every thirty minutes and relevel it as necessary by use of the electric air compressor that is part of the system. However, air leveling on and 2003 Thunder is uncommon unless it was added by the previous owner. If you need to talk to someone for more information when you are looking at the coach, just call me.

Gerald  

[Edward Buker]

Jerry,

To add a little to what Gerald is saying. The air leveling system that the coach has is for over the road application. Basically there are air valves that are mechanically coupled with rods to fixed chassis locations. As he coach moves and the body leans, or rises, or falls, the mechanical valves either add air to certain air springs or reduces air in certain springs to compensate. It is a nice dynamic system that consumes a fair amount of air as you travel down the road. When you stop, ignition turned off, compressor not running, and are just sitting, it basically serves no function. The air will slowly escape through minor leaks and the coach will eventually settle down to physical bumpers within the air springs.

The HWH system if added (and other coach years had them standard or as an option) it will actually take over when you are stopped and with a leveling computer send air or remove air dynamically into specific air springs to set the coach level within the range of the system capability. Like Gerald says it will check periodically, adjust, and generate its own air as needed. Most consider this a better system then the SMC IDS hydraulic system although that had some strong points also. The fact that it leveled frame to axle without going to the ground and once leveled it was solid and stable, those are the IDS strong points.  It is difficult as you are finding to get support, parts, and repairs done is the down side.

If you buy you will need a leveling system and you will either have to go to Bend OR for a hydraulic system fix or go to Moscow Indiana to add an HWH air leveling system. I do not think this is the kind of issue that you should drive away from your dealer with without compensation and a plan.

Later Ed

[Jerry Emert]

two control panels.  Are these the leveling panels? Trying to attach photos!

[Jerry Emert]

this

[Jerry Emert]

That was a struggle!  Well folks, what do I have?

[Karl Welhart]

Jerry,

Looks like you have both system.  My guess is that the IDS (SMC) system was replaced by the HWH.  Not sure if you have HWH Active Air which incorporated both air level and computer control air ride systems.  The tech should be able to see if the IDS is still usable.  BTW, cost for the HWH air leveling only is $4,600.00 plus tax installed by HWH in Iowa.

Karl

[Jerry Emert]

The build sheet says that it has "cushion air glide suspension," hydraulic leveling system and I just noticed  on the back of the sheet Duel leveling system (air/hydr).  Having never had a Class A before I'm pretty confused still and still dealing with the dealer after a full month has got my patience kind of thin.
They promised and documented on the buyers order that they would have every major system functional so I'm just trying to get them to live up to the deal.  I think they are honestly trying so as long as y'all say that the air leveling is sufficient, I'm inclined to give them a pass.  I'll make them pay for it somehow though.  Thanks for all your responses so far.
Jerry

[Edward Buker]

Jerry,

You should be able to park off level and use the HWH panel to level your coach if it is working right. If the sheet you were referring to was a factory sheet then the HWH air system was factory installed which is good. The other good news is if the HWH system is not working then it should be relatively easy to get it fixed at the current dealer or another factory authorized HWH service center. HWH is still in business and that is a popular system.

Given that air leveling system is working then the IDS system is really optional and not all that important. If you had both systems available you would probably choose the air leveling system 99% of the time. I think if the dealer can demonstrate that HWH air leveling system and it works as it should then if you like the coach and the deal then I would not let the SMC IDS system hold me back. It would be nice if they documented what they think is wrong with the IDS system from all their trouble shooting, like the computer control panel is dead etc. so it gives you some idea where you are on that system.

Just one opinion....

Later Ed

[Joel Ashley]

My HWH leveling control panel is only slightly different than yours.  I'd check the HWH website for an owners manual, but it may be difficult to find there, or give them a call Monday for help getting a manual.  You'll have a leg up when the dealer demonstrates it.  It looks to me like the rig is using model 680.       http://www.hwh.com/ml40256.pdf

If you get the coach, eventually you may get to Bend where BCS can inspect and advise as to the repair of your IDS hydraulics.

-Joel

Addendum:  this may be yours:               http://www.hwh.com/ml13985.pdf

When you press the AIR button twice, it will automatically level.  After automatic, but not after manual, leveling, the system checks for absolute level status every half hour.  If it's not level, a small auxiliary compressor turns on and inflates any low corner air bag until things are square again.  You need to have the dealer demonstrate that that compressor works as designed;  many of us have had to replace them with higher quality units after the originals fail, preferably with a model by ViAir.

[Jerry Emert]

Thanks to you all.  I've learned a lot and hopefully I'll be able to do whats best.  I really like the coach and considering the work they have done to get it ready, I still think it's a pretty good deal price wise.  I'll let you know what happens.
Jerry

[LaMonte Monnell]

I have a 2001 Beaver Contessa and have the IDS hydraulic leveling system only.

Due to some jacks with leaks I am going to have HWH in Moscow, Iowa install an air leveling system in my coach in July.

They will remove the hydraulic jacks and cap and secure  the lines reducing that weight. The control box for the IDS system will be replaced with the Air control panel.

The front living room slide operates from the same hydraulic reservoir and will continue to work for that.

They gave me a quote of $4922 to do this job and it will take 1-2 days. Hope you get it all straightened out......