Chassis Batteries

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Ed,
Until Larry verifies that he has coach battery voltage at the EC (Red wire to Black wire), I wouldn't say it was bad. Unless I missed it, I don't think he's tested there  yet.
Steve

[Edward Buker]

Steve,

I assumed he had house battery voltage to the EC because the LED would not blink without it. I suppose the chassis battery hot lead/fuse could be bad or open but I would have thought by now that he would have tested for that. Maybe I jumped the gun, but I was getting to the point that the likely fail was the EC and I wanted to not prolong Larry's misery any longer for the cost of an Echo Charger. Bad lead, fuse, or circuit board, either way it should be fixed....

Later Ed

[Larry Dedrick]

Ed and Steve:
                  Your help is appreciated. I am headed to the coach to switch the echo charger, clean the hard to get to cables from the echo charger (actually the cables i need to clean don't connect directly to the echo charger). The two leads from the echo charger (the fused leads) go to a device beside the echo charger and connect to two separate posts on this device, and then battery size cables continue from these posts to the respective battery bank. These are the cables I will ck for corrosion and clean regardless. My next step will be to ck power in and out of echo charger as advised. The good news, is that my wife and I are learning this system and we do appreciate all your help. I will keep you posted on my findings.

                                      Larry D.

[Larry Dedrick]

Gentlemen:
                I have measured the charge current going to the echo charger, it coach 13.07 volts and chassis 13.35 volts. I traced the battery size cables the best I could and believe I have the coach and chassis correct. However, I thought the coach would have the higher voltage reading. Overall, regardless if I miss traced the cables, both coach and chassis are receiving a charge.
                So, bad echo charger?
                 Well Hello Dolly!!! Looked up at my coach monitor panel and coach shows 13.5, went outside to check echo charger and LED was steady Green! During my tracing and moving these battery cables a bit, could that have been an influence. I tend to believe, that maybe my coach needs to hit 13.5 volts to affect a correct LED

                                             Larry D

[Larry Dedrick]

Gentlemen:
                I also switched the Prosine Dip Switches the the described position first thing this morning, then I cranked up the gen and took the readings on the echo charger.
                          Switch Bank One:
                                  #1      Down
                                    # 2,3,4  not used
                                  #5,6   Down
                                     # 7,8    UP  (where they were originally)
                          Switch Bank Two     I did not change anything.

                  It's nice to be learning this system the hard way , you tend to remember better, Thanks to Your help. Lets hope things continue to operate according to the book. I have not seen voltage this high on the Coach Monitor Panel before, right now 13.6 to 13.7 volts, solar showing 14.0 volts. I,m thinking changing the Dip Sw for Gel may have had an influence, at least I hope so.

                           Larry D.

[Edward Buker]

Larry,

Looks like it is working, I suspect  that you had a bad contact, most likely at the fuse holder. I would change those to an automotive type fuse and holder like this one with a 20 amp fuse.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Inline-Fuse-Circuit-Breaker-Holder-ATO-ATC-PHILLIPS-Industries/_/R-PHI54350_0186941739

They have better contact area and are more corrosion resistant. You cut the wire and use crimp connectors to reconnect the wires. You can get heat shrinkable crimp connectors that will seal around the wire once crimped. They are available at auto stores. Standard crimp connectors will also work but they would need some form of sealing to keep the weather and fumes from degrading them.

Later Ed

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Larry,
Glad to hear it's working but be sure to clean & tighten ALL connections you can get to from batteries to EC, in addition to Ed's recommendation. Any one of them could have caused the problem.
Steve

[Larry Dedrick]

Steve and Ed:
                  I will change these fuses out at a convenient time, should be an easy project. Thanks for all the help.

                            Larry D

[Larry Dedrick]

Ed:

          I do believe I have an issue also with my alternator, as you indicated earlier. I ran the engine this afternoon and at idle (800rpm) the voltage from the alternator was 13.7 which is ok, I believe. However when I bring the rpm to 1800 rpm the alternator voltage climbs to 15.7 volts. Regarding your suggestion to have the alternator rebuilt with a new voltage regulator put on it, would it be unwise to start with the voltage regulator first or is it internal to where I can not access it. Also, what about a new alternator as opposed to rebuilding this one. I would only imagine the one I would purchase would be a rebuilt anyway. I'm open for further advice.

                 Thanks                Larry D.

[George H. Wall]

The voltage regulator is an internal unit, to access it you must open the alternator, and might as well rebuild if there is signs of any wear on the brushes.

[Joel Ashley]

Sounds to me like Larry's basic problem was dip switches never set correctly for the gel mats.

It's cool that Laura gets involved in troubleshooting too;  not all wives care to when it comes to engineering and mechanicals.

Joel

[Larry Dedrick]

Joel:
              Laura gets involved because she doesn't trust me. Kidding aside, She can read and comprehend a little quicker than me, and with two heads working together I feel there may be fewer mistakes. We pulled the alternator and will be taking it to Southeast Power Systems in Orlando, which is where the alternator came from. The dealer that I bought the coach from replaced the previous alternator. Would you believe I was reading 16.9 volts with a voltmeter from the alternator at 1800rpm and 15.5 volts at the chassis batteries and the Silverleaf reflecting 15.8. I don't want to drive with this problem, so off with the alternator and on to Orlando for a bench check.

             Larry D.

[Edward Buker]

Larry,
 
The 15.7 Volts is too high. And climbing voltage with RPM is a sign that your regulator is not working properly or it could be a sense wire that is not setting the proper reference voltage. I would confirm at the batteries with a good voltmeter that with the engine running at 1800RPM that the batteries are seeing the 15+Volts that you are getting at the dash or on your electronic monitor, possibly a Silverleaf. If you are taking your readings on the dash using the little round voltmeter forget it. You need to verify what the batteries are seeing and your readings before any alternator decisions can be made.

These coaches typically have a Leece Neville with a Duvac set up that are a bit pricey which is why I think they may be worth rebuilding by a reputable shop. If you are going to change the regulator you should also clean the heat sink, put in new brushes and springs, new bearings and grease, and clean the copper surfaces on the commutator that the brushes ride on. At the same time they will check the diodes, the field winding and the commutator windings and bench test it under load. A good alternator shop should be able to turn it around in a day or two for around $250 which would be a good ballpark figure. You want to be sure that they will use factory parts. There are other new alternator alternatives.

Later Ed

[Larry Dedrick]

Ed:
          Thanks for your reply. I had taken the readings at the alternator, chassis batteries, and noted the silver leaf. The readings were 16.9, 15.5,and 15.8 respectively. Fortunately, this alternator was a recent install just prior to us purchasing the coach, so I pulled the alternator and will be taking it to the facility from which it came.
           Ed, if you don't mind, could you explain where the sense wire is and what to look for if it's a potential problem and what do you do to fix a sense wire.

                  Thanks for your input.                Larry D

[Edward Buker]

Larry,

The voltage regulator has to have a good clean ground wire connection which will go to the frame on or near the engine. On a Leece Neville with a Duvac system there is a plus sense wire that is tied somewhere beyond or at the battery isolator to get a true reading of the charge voltage that the battery is seeing. I think that wire terminal may say Duvac if it is a Leece Neville. There is a small voltage drop from the diodes in the isolator and by sensing on the battery side of the isolator the alternator adjusts for that voltage drop. I do not know what type of alternator was put in and some types just measure or sense the voltage on the main + output lead at the alternator connection and do not compensate for having an isolator which is fine also. That should put out about 14.2V at the alternator with the batteries well charged. Whatever type is being installed ask for a diagram for connecting it and tell them that you have a battery isolator in the system. They may be able to help with a diagram or possibly may not know what you are talking about. If you make no headway with a diagram, I assume they will replace the one you have with another like it, if so connect it the way it was connected and try it out. It may be that you got one with a bad regulator and that is all it will be. In the end you need to see about 13.6 to 14.4V at the battery terminal and you will be golden.

Later Ed