Tires

[Jim Bentley]

I saw a thread a while back that I believe they mentioned that the proper tire size for the Patriots in the Marques was a 295 - 80.  Was thinking of Bridgestone tires, but before I make this expenditure, can anybody confirm that tire size. My Marque is 42,000 pounds with a tag. Thanks so much Jim Bentley

[Gerald Farris]

My 2000 Marquis came with 11R22.5 tires, and at a weight in excess of 38,000 pounds, without a tag axle they were overloaded. Three years ago I changed to 295-80R22.5  Bridgestone tires, and I have been very happy with the new tires, and my tires are no longer overloaded.

The 295-80R22.5 tires are the best size for replacement tires if you are running 11 or 12R22.5 tires now, but there is a slight difference in size, so make sure you have the clearance needed. If you have a Patriot that is running 275-22.5 tires, you probably do not have enough clearance for the 295 tires. So you can not say that the 295 tires are the best replacement for Patriots and Marquis',because there is not enough clearance for them on all Patriots and Marquis'.

Gerald

[Jerry Pattison]

Gerald, I have Toyo tires on my 98 Marquis.  When I bought the coach, with 20,000 miles, it had Toyos.  Shortly after, I encountered "cupping" of the steer tires.  I eventually replaced them with Michelin (by the way, all these tires are 11R22.5), and they did never cup, just the sidewalls wore out at 4 years.  And, I cover my tires with covers.  I forgot about the Toyo cupping, and bought them again a few years ago, and these are again cupping on the steer wheels.  Silly me!  So, are you so happy with Bridgestone that you would recommend them to me in my situation?  And, which model, long haul, extreme long haul, short haul, etc?

Thanks, Gerald!   Was good to see you in Harrisburg!

JP

[Gerald Farris]

Jerry,
I am sorry that it took so long to answer, but I had to do a little research into what tires are offered from Bridgestone in the size that you are running.

I am running R 250 tires and I would strongly recommend them, but they are no longer made. The only tire that Bridgestone makes in my size (295/80/22.5) is the R 250 F that I think replaces the R 250. These are considered regional haul tires. In my opinion the long and extra long haul tires are an unnecessary expense over the regional haul tires since, I have never worn out a motorhome tire but I have to change them because of age, and I am a fulltimer.

If you are not overloaded on your 11R22.5 tires and want to keep the same size, there are a lot of options from Bridgestone, but most are drive axle tires or they do not come in a H load rated tire which will be minimal for your coach. If you go with 11R22.5 tires the R 250 ED tires would would be the ones that I would recommend. The R 280 tires would also be a good choice, but I think that they are more expensive. However, your local Bridgestone dealer can give you the pros and cons of each tire.

If you have not weighed your coach, I would highly recommend it before you buy tires so that you can increase the load capacity of your tires if necessary. Just be sure that you get enough load capacity and a speed rating of 75 MPH.

Gerald  

[Jerry Pattison]

Thanks for those recommendations, Gerald!  Yes, I have weighed the coach, all four corners, so I know the weight at each.  I will look into Bridgestone, I now remember that when the Toyos started "cupping"  a few years ago, they never stopped, even when they were put onto the inside dual positions.  I then replaced them with Michelin, but their sidewalls deteriorate too fast!

So, the Toyos (steer) come off, and something else goes on.  I think I will try a Bridgestone, in the H load range, per your suggestion.

Thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

Be safe.

JP

[Jeremy Parrett]

Good information Gerald.  I now realize I have probably installed the wrong  steering tires. I have Bridgestone 11R22.5   R250 's on the rear duals , tag axle and steering.
With a dual weight capacity of 5840lbs they add up to 35040 lbs including the tag.The Beaver Marquis Amethyst gross tag+ duals is 33800,so we are ok here. However, at the front, the gross axle weight is 14600lbs and the 11R22.5  R250's combined are good for 12350lbs .  Am I right that I need to look for a steering tire with a greater load capacity?
I went with the 11R22.5 R 250's all round so I could switch them around,not realizing the loading issue.
What do you suggest I do.  Thanks,  Jeremy

[Gerald Farris]

Jeremy,
The first thing that you need to do is weigh your coach. You need to know what each wheel location weighs for multiple reasons. First you need to know the weights to properly adjust the weight on the tag. After the tag axle is properly loaded, you can weigh the front axle. Remember as you increase the weight on the tag axle, you shift some weight to the front axle, but the tag needs to carry enough weight to prevent overloading the drive axle, so it can be a real balancing act to get the right weight on the tag without overloading either the front or drive axles.

If the front axle is not overloaded you are OK, but if the front axle is overloaded on the tires that you have after the tag is adjusted and the coach is weighed, you need to upgrade your front tires. I would suggest that you trade the 11R/22.5 R250's for 295/80/22.5 R250's (most truck tire dealers will give a generous trade-in allowance on good 11/22.5 tires because they are used on most trailers and can be readily sold). The 295s will give you the extra load capacity that you need and they will clear the front suspension on almost all 2000 or 2001 Marquis coaches. Since you did not say what kind of coach you have, I am assuming that it is a 2001 Marquis by the axle weights and tire sizes that you listed.

Gerald

[Jeremy Parrett]

Gerald,
 Thank you for the information.  
 My coach is a 2000 Marquis Amethyst.  I have been searching for a local weigh station to weigh all axles . Judging by the way the steering feels,the front tires are overloaded.
Is there an actual size  difference between the 11R22.5's and the 295 80 R22.5  ? I see the single load rating is 3000kg  or 6600 lbs which is up from the 6175 lbs of the 11R22.5's. Perfect.
   Thanks,  Jeremy



2000 Marquis Amethyst C12.

[Richard And Babs Ames]

DOT instpectors carry portable scales and will weigh you in some states as a public service.

[Edward Buker]

Gerald and Crew,

I wanted to pass along one other option for anyone looking at making a tire decision. I worked with a Michelin tire reliability engineer, a field I am familiar with from my past life, on several XRV tire failures that I had on my last Beaver coach. I sent them in for failure analysis with them. They were inner dual failures, which is a coach tire position with a still unexplained higher failure rate. The tires were never under inflated nor overloaded although the weight rating was near the max for this tire. Eventually I went to Toyos for the sidewall strength and the fact that they were made in Japan.

In my purchase of a 2002 Marquis non-tag I had to make a tire decision and went back to the same Michelin Engineer for some guidance. He indicated that the Michelin XZA2 Energy Tire (load range H) had about the lowest failure/return rate of any suitable tire line that they make. In a 295 80R 22.5 size it is rated at 7830LBs at 120PSI and 13980lbs at 120PSI in a dual configuration. This allows most of us to run less than the max tire pressure and the ride, quiet, and handling are excellent. I have become wary of using a tire at or near its max rating. In addition, the improvements in rolling resistance is supposed to give us 3-4% improved mileage. This tire fit my coach with no clearance issues. With the extra load capacity capability (+1200lbs if the info in this thread is correct) and safety margin they may be worth it for some.  However, I do not love the price....

http://www.michelinrvtires.com/michelinrv/tires-retreads/new-tires.jsp

Later Ed

[Gerald Farris]

Jeremy,
The 295/80/22.5 will be slightly taller than the 11R22.5 tires that you are now running, but less than 1/2 inch taller. If the max load rating on your tires is 6175 pounds, you must be running load range G tires. These tires will definitely be overloaded, and should not have ever been installed on that coach.

The 295/80/22.5 R250F Bridgestone tires are load range H and their max load single is 7830 pounds at 125PSI. They should give you the load capacity that you need. A complete listing of all Bridgestone tires with the actual size measurements and inflation/load capacity tables can be found at;  http://www.trucktires.com/bridgestone/us_eng/load/databooks_pdf/B_MediumLightTruckDataBook.pdf

Gerald

[Gerald Farris]

The Michelin tires that Ed referred to in the above post are an excellent tire and I would be running them, except for the fact that they were over a thousand dollars more expensive for a set of six tires than the R 250 Bridgestone's that I installed. I could not justify the extra cost if the Bridgestone's would give me the same service, and so far (3 1/2 years) they have.

Gerald

[Edward Buker]

Gerald,

When I bought this coach I did not want to leave the tires to chance, so part of the deal was that I could pick my tire set. It was good that I had negotiated that item because the shop had already mounted a set of under-rated Toyos when I reminded them of the agreement. Next time around with my hard earned money I will be taking a hard look at the Bridgestones unless you find some flaw over time. FYI the Michelins I have are manufactured in Germany. Do you know where the Bridgestones are made, it is usually on the sidewall.

Thanks for the Bridgestone data book link, when I wrote I could not find the data on the tire you spoke of. It does look like it is as robust a weight rating as the Michelin.  

Later Ed

[Gerald Farris]

Ed,
Yes any tire that is made outside the USA has to list the country of origin on the sidewall to be marketed in this country. My Bridgestone tires were made in Brazil.

Gerald

[Jeremy Parrett]

Gerald,
 When I bought my coach in March 2010, I asked The Dealer, in Seffner, to change the front tires on my coach as they were not Bridgestones . Bridgestones were on the rear and tag axles. The tires they installed on the front are the R250F 11R22.5 's that I now realize have a load rating way under that required.  The question is....who is responsible??  I asked the dealer to install new tires of the same make.  I did not know much more than that. Seven months later and 4000 miles down the road, I am now more knowledgable about these things. Due to steering wander, I began to research causes and this lead me to check the tire load ratings.
 I am now very concerned for our safety and that of other road users. Do you think The Dealer has an obligation to make sure the tires they install meet the particular RV load ratings?
 Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.    Thanks,  jeremy