Echo Charger

[William Brosam]

for those that have the advanced magnum remote is there any benefit to it?

[Edward Buker]

Gary,

I have been away all day painting the kitchen in my brothers home. Big painful job between the ceiling and walls, lots of cracks to repair. Glad that we are getting near the end, today is day 4 of 5...
 
As far as residual current in the unit, none of any consequences will be there as long as the AC breaker feed from your main panel is off, the coach is disconnected from the pedestal, and all of the batteries from the house bank are disconnected. I would disconnect both the main house bank plus lead and the main ground from the house bank and at least the ground from the chassis bank just to be sure before you start to disconnect the old inverter and install the new. Once you are sure with your meter that no AC or DC is being fed to the inverter I would then label each wire with tape and a sharpie as to what its function is before I disconnect anything. It is best to look at the labeling on the new Magnum and label each wire to match where it will go on the Magnum before you disconnect anything on the old inverter. Once you are sure all wires are labeled for the new inverter and you have verified no voltage is present then you can start to uninstall the old unit. It is also good to take photos of the old install with the wire labels so you can go back to them if there is a question. I am a bit cautious here but it is an expensive unit and you need to be sure that all the wiring is correct before you power it up. I would recommend that the house battery bank be connected first on start up before applying AC unless the Magnum manual tells you otherwise. Chargers like to have a battery load in place before the AC is applied. Take your time and call Magnum if you have any questions. Hope this helps.

Later Ed

[Jerry Emert]

for those that have the advanced magnum remote is there any benefit to it?

As I understand it, the ARC gives you the ability to monitor battery State of Charge (SOC) as a percentage rather than just full or charging etc...  It also tells you how much battery you have left while using the inverter for power,  I'm still trying to learn all that it does so I can decide whether to get it or not.  I have the RC now that I bought thinking I was getting the ARC, still not sure how that happened.  good luck.
Jerry

[Gary Wolfer]

I am reading the book tonight and am a little unsure on wiring the AC connections. On the old Freedom 20D There is a panel on the bottom across the front that is marked AC Input another AC output1 and another AC output 2. to me this means this unit has one input and two outputs. According to the 2812 manual the only model that has this configuration is the 2012 on page 27. What am I missing? The output is supposed to be like the dual pole 30A right? I am a little confused. Seems like it should be the first one Single in and single out on page 24 with 120v and 30 amp do I just wire nut the AC2 wires and not use them?

[Edward Buker]

Gary,

I believe that Beaver used an external grey AC box with 3-4 breakers in it on ceiling of the bay. It should have a 10guage wire feed, probably Romex going into it. If your current coach has such a breaker box that is the distribution box for a single output feed of AC out of the inverter to the coach. So you would not have anything to add or change.

Although the old freedom 20 had an AC one and AC2 option it may not have been used. If your coach has no AC breaker box in the bay area and you have a Freedom 20 now with two AC output wires then you would have to add a small AC breaker box with a 30amp main breaker and two breaker protected circuits (15 amp if 14 gauge wire or 20amp if 12 gauge wire) and then provide a single 10 gauge Romex feed from that box to the MS2812 .

When you say dual pole 30Amp right? .....The output of the MS2812 is a single 120V in our case 30 Amp circuit. That will consist of a black hot wire, a white neutral wire, and a ground wire and a single breaker with a single handle. Dual pole usually referring to a 220V breaker with two handles tied together I believe. All of this wiring will be single pole 120V.

Later Ed

[Gerald Farris]

Ed,
I do not think that the 98 Patriot used the separate breaker box in the basement for inverter output like your Marquis has. I would just use a small external breaker box with two breakers, 15 or 20 amp depending on wire gauge, and tie his leg 1 to one breaker and leg 2 to the other one. Then run a short 10 gauge wire from the inverter output to the breaker box. I do not think that a 30 amp master breaker is necessary in the small added box because the inverter input in already controller by a 30 amp breaker.

Gerald  

[Gary Wolfer]

Thanks both of you for your input I am not an electrician but think I have an understanding now. I do not have the separate breaker box as of this time so I will have to purchase one then I will need to take the wires from the 30 amp imput side of the freedom to the Magnum and wire one imput hot one imput neutral and tie that ground with an outgoing ground to the ground lug inside the magnum terminal block. Then take a short length of #10 romex from the terminal block AC Hot Out and AC neutral out tp the external breaker box with a 30 amp breaker and two 20 or 15 amp breakers then attach the output one and output two romex wires to each of those breakers. Here is a photo of the diagram I am now looking at in the manual. (breaker size depends on the wire size from the breaker panel in the bedroom to the freedom inverter as it is now right?)

[Edward Buker]

Gerald and Gary,

As far as the 30 amp main breaker in the output side of the additional box that has been the wiring technique used by Beaver when the Charger Inverter does not have internal protection. I'm not sure exactly if this is dictated by code.  I believe the primary reason is that the inverter generates AC in invert mode and you could overload the inverter beyond capability using the sum of multiple circuits. So thirty amps for a main and then most likely two 20 amp branches. It is also a chance to add a circuit in the bay with an extra breaker if you would like.

Later Ed

[Joel Ashley]

I've been following this with interest, as a learning experience I guess, and I note the similarity to our configuration:  50 amp Main with the last breaker in that panel being 30 amp feeding the inverter.  As Gerald mentions, that should preclude the need for another 30 amp breaker, and yet our non-Main box fed by the inverter does have a 30 amp breaker first in line labeled 30 amp main.  I assume the one in the 50amp Main box protects the inverter, and the one in the second box protects everything else downstream of the inverter even though each circuit thereafter has its own breaker.

Also, I don't know if Gary's coach has GFCI outlets or not, but if not would he not benefit from using 2 breakers with GFCI built in in his 30 amp box ?

Joel

[Gary Wolfer]

I went to Newport this afternoon to find a breaker box. The only one I could find was larger than what I wanted measuring 11 1/2 x 13" but it holds the 30 amp and two 20 amp and has 4 more empty spaces so I could add some plugs to the basement or do what I wish and Maybe Joel I would even add GFCI's at the first outlet of each run if I did any more. However I am not very high on them as I had one melt and catch on fire instead of kick. I will mount it on the back wall next to the inverter. The old inverter sits on a shelf I am concerned with the exhaust vent in the back of the Magnum as it is longer than the old Freedom I will have to set it out further from the wall for ventilation. The shelf is plenty strong to let it hang over the front. I was sick about the adding of an additional box at first but after looking at the diagram it will be simple even for me. I ordered a  400A fuse and holder by Magnum to go in the positive line between the house battery bank and the inverter. Should have ordered a spare fuse but the unit was over 80 bucks as it was. I got about 80 in the breaker panel, breakers and 6' of 10-2 romex. I have added photos of my breaker box and breakers below.

[Joel Ashley]

Ed Buker will be the first to tell you that there are bad GFCI's and there are good ones.  He can tell you which one is quality-built and pretty reliable.

What I was referring to is your getting breakers for your inverter panel that already have GFCI components in them, so you don't need GFCI outlets, and when one trips (GFCI component, not the circuit breaker itself necessarily) it's easy to know where to go to reset that circuit.  On my posted photo the GFCI breakers reveal via the yellow reset tab visible on them.  They are Square D brand.    http://www.lowes.com/pd_71829-296-QO120GFICP_0__

Joel

[Gary Wolfer]

Joel I am learning as well. So what you are saying is I can purchase breakers that fit into the panel I am installing that have a built in GFCI in the breakers themselves? so I would not have to install GFCI's downline. Great idea  You know the only thing I really hate about this Patriot is the placement of the inverter and the transfer switch being buried in the back of the largest Bin I have in the basement area I get tired of having to move stuff just to get to them. My 94 Safari had a dedicated box straight across the coach from the battery compartment that housed the inverter two GFCI Plugs one for each line and the transfer switch. It was less than arms length deep. Probably the reason My inverter went out is when I am parked in the campground I run a 1500 watt infrared heater and when I would forget to turn it off in the morning and my DW turned on her electric Tea Pot it would pop the breaker on the front of the inverter. The older I get the more often it happens.

[Edward Buker]

Joel,

I think you missed the point of my last post..... The main AC panel in the coach does have a 30 amp breaker that feeds the inverter/charger while you are using shore power, so if the output side of the inverter charger sees a load in excess of 30 amps the inverter/charger is protected because it is passing AC current through the coaches main AC panel as Gerald reasoned out.

The second scenario is that you are off shore power and are now in invert mode. The main panel AC breaker is no longer involved and offers no protection, there is no AC passing through that panel. The coach AC wise is now running off the small breaker box in the bay (our location). So the AC overload protection now must come from the downstream box on the output side of the inverter. Assume you have three 20 amp individual breakers on the output side of the inverter (could be more) with no main breaker. You could now pull 60 amps out of the inverter which has no internal protection and that would send your brand new unit to inverter heaven. You protect the inverter by using a 30 amp main breaker configuration on the output side and then the three 20 amp breakers protect each circuit leg wiring from overload. Hope this helps.

Later Ed

[Edward Buker]

Gary,

From your photo I saw the 30 amp breaker that you bought and I know that is not the right one. That is a dual pole 220V breaker. You need a single pole 120V 30 amp breaker. That breaker is where the black wire from the inverter 10 gauge Romex would screw into that feeds the box hot buss. You would not use the large lug on the box that is above the breakers unless it is a ground lug. I cannot tell from your photo what it does but by its location I think it is on the hot buss.

 I think the box is OK but I was expecting to see a buss bar for the neutral line (white wire) and a buss for the ground (bare wire). Wire the neutral wires to the buss and the grounds to the box is what I would want to do. I am not sure if the grounds and the neutral can be tied together in a motorhome configuration unless the main coach AC box has bonded the ground and neutrals together. That should be checked if you are going to use the single buss for both grounds and neutrals.

Gary I am concerned that you are trying to do all this on your own and I think because of the breaker you bought you are not really sure of how this all works. This is really your decision but only so much help can come through the forum. You may want to consider getting the help of an electrician or someone who has done a lot of wiring and understands all of this. Hope this doesn't upset you, I am just trying to help.

Later Ed

[Edward Buker]

Gary,

The ME series charger has a relay within it that bonds the neutral to ground and there should only be one bonding point in the RV at any one time.

http://www.aeesolar.com/how-stationary-and-mobile-inverter-systems-differ

What that means is that the neutral wires (white) in your new box would go to the buss and that buss should be kept isolated from ground which will be tied to the metal box. The ground wires, if there are no additional screw buss for ground connections will be together with wire nuts with an extra bare wire brought out of the wire nut and tied to the metal box. The 20 amp 120V breakers will be wired with the black branch circuit wires from the old inverter output.

So what is different about this box is that the inverter 120V out black wire will go to what is normally an output feed from a 30 amp single pole 120V breaker that we use as an AC input feed to the main breaker buss in this box. Hope this helps.

later Ed