Author Topic: Oil weight 10/30 or 15/40 in cat c9  (Read 13072 times)

Bryan Beamon

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Oil weight 10/30 or 15/40 in cat c9
« on: July 14, 2015, 02:24:08 PM »
Cat in Bismarck  ND strongly urged me to use 10/30 weight  oil due to better oil flow and less ware on the huei pump and fuel injecters. The 10/30 oil is rated up to 104 degrees ambient temperature. Anybody had any experience with making the change to 10/30 from i 15/40 oil in a Cat c9? As a side note most of our travels are on the west coast and almost never travel in 104 degrees.
C & Bryan Beamon
2006  to present
2007 Contessa 42ft Cat C-9 400hp
1996 to 2006 97 Beaver Patriot Camden

Edward Buker

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Re: Oil weight 10/30 or 15/40 in cat c9
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2015, 04:42:39 PM »
Bryan,

Shell makes a T5 synthetic blend in a 10W-40 which may be an excellent choice for you. I have been running that synthetic blend. It has the better cold start flow characteristics, better protection for dirt deposits and wear when compared to standard Rotella, and a version that has the 40W over the 30W spec capability. Shell at times has a rebate making it nearly the same price as the standard Rotella. The only issue at times, is who might be stocking it. Seems like a better choice then conventional 10-30W oil.

I think they may have a legitimate concern for lubing the Huei pump on a cold start up, probably most of the wear happens during that time when oil is not flowing yet.

http://www.shell.com/rotella/products/t5.html

Later Ed

Bryan Beamon

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Re: Oil weight 10/30 or 15/40 in cat c9
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2015, 06:27:02 PM »
Ed , thanks for the suggestion I will check out the oil you recommend.
C & Bryan Beamon
2006  to present
2007 Contessa 42ft Cat C-9 400hp
1996 to 2006 97 Beaver Patriot Camden

Edward Buker

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Re: Oil weight 10/30 or 15/40 in cat c9
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2015, 07:03:38 PM »

Bryan Beamon

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Re: Oil weight 10/30 or 15/40 in cat c9
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2015, 11:14:56 PM »
Interesting article looks like l am switching to your recco next oil change
C & Bryan Beamon
2006  to present
2007 Contessa 42ft Cat C-9 400hp
1996 to 2006 97 Beaver Patriot Camden

Dave Atherton

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Re: Oil weight 10/30 or 15/40 in cat c9
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2015, 02:12:20 AM »
Bryan, this may answer your question the Cat dealer put out on engine oils.
Engine Oil Viscosity ( Ambient Temperature ). Cat DEO Multigrade EMA, lRG-1,
API  CH-4, API CG-4 and API  C F-4
SAE  OW20. Min -40F.     Max 50F
SAE OW30.  Min -40.       Max 86F
SAE OW 40. Min.-40.       Max 104F
SAE  5W30   Min. -22.      Max  86F
SAE  5W40.  Min. -22.      Max  104F
SAE. 10W30  Min. -4.       MAx  104F
SAE. 15W40. Min. -5.       Max. 122F
Synthetic base oils perform better than conventional oils in following two areas.
Synthetics base oils have improved flow at low temperatures especially in artic conditions.
Synthetics base oils have improved oxidation stability at high operating temperatures.
Synthetics base oils will extend service life of oil but Cat does not recommend extension of
Oil change intervals.  Looking at the Max temperatures I myself would stay with 15W40
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Edward Buker

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Re: Oil weight 10/30 or 15/40 in cat c9
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2015, 06:23:13 PM »
 Dave, Bryan,

The 10W-40 synthetic blend T5 Rotella would better serve the issue of getting lubrication to the fuel pump and injector system than the 15W-40 at all temperatures, but especially during a cold start. The Cat info Dave passed along is great (thanks, like that the info has use temperature ranges) however Cat did not include a 10W-40 oil.

Given the max temp of 104F for the 5W-40 and the 122F for the 15W-40 one would expect a standard 10W-40 diesel oil to fall somewhere in between which in my mind is about what one might look for as a best compromise between cold start flow characteristics and having a little higher useful temperature operating range.
The fact that a synthetic or synthetic blend oil is more stable with heat it could actually be better and tolerate a higher use temperature over standard 15W-40 base oils without breaking down. Dave, I am still liking the 10w-40 synthetic blend over 15w-40 conventional diesel oil for myself for those reasons.

It would seem that the Cat folks in Bismarck ND are forming an opinion based on the pump and injector wear or fails they are seeing with these modern oil driven high pressure injection systems and telling their customers to consider lower viscosity oils.  I personally would never go in the 10W-30 direction for an all season yearly choice in an RV, but for a trucker in ND during a winter season that oil it might be a good choice. They put so many miles on with frequent oil changes that they can vary the viscosity by season. That is usually not the case for us RV folks.

Later Ed

Dave Atherton

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Re: Oil weight 10/30 or 15/40 in cat c9
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2015, 04:40:57 AM »
Ed, passing along types of oils makes a very good topic. The higher temps would
fit into a retired person criteria or called snow birds. Few thoughts might pass along
about engines and oils over my long working career as cat mechanic we were required
to pull oil samples than and now cannot stress enough about taking oil sampling at
each oil change. There are two main things in preventing engine failure. One oil samples
will tell a person after base line sample taken ( what is going on with wear inside of
engine ). Oil sample will tell by count break down of all metals used in the engine along
With fuel in oil, oil in antifreeze, rod bearings, main bearings, cam bearings, cam followers,
oil pump, injectors, rings etc.  Second get a cat ET readout and setup base line of
values inside engine, fuel pressures, atmosphere, boost pressure, intake temp, heating
History, derate of engine, active fault codes, event codes. Fuel pressure and injection
pressures are very important to have a base for troubleshooting ( very important )
The type of oil a person uses really is a personal choice, using SOS sampling and finding
out oil sample report readout is very important. The Cat dealer more than likely is making
there statement based on oil sampling. Still many factors involved type of use engines
we're involved in ( on road pavement, off road gravel extreme dusty conditions etc. )
Motorhome in most cases are not involved in much off road dusty conditions, or much
extreme cold below zero for long periods, and yes some are.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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Edward Buker

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Re: Oil weight 10/30 or 15/40 in cat c9
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2015, 06:08:26 AM »
Thanks Dave,

Good to have the thoughts of a Cat mechanic on our forum. Point well taken about baselines, events, and oil sampling. Keep the good info coming...

Later Ed
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Dave Atherton

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understanding turbo boost by Dave Atherton
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2015, 01:20:25 PM »
Turbo boost how it works. When the Load on the engine increases, more fuel is injected into
the cylinders. The combustion of this additional fuel produces more exhaust gases. The additional
exhaust gases cause the turbine and the compressor wheels of the turbocharger to turn faster.
As the compressor turns faster, more air is forced into the cylinders. The increased flow of air gives the engine more power by allowing the engine to burn additional fuel with greater efficiency.
When the engine is operating under conditions of low boost boost, a spring pushes on a diaphragm in the canister. This action moves the actuating lever in order to close the valve of the wastegate.
Closing the valve of the wastegate allows the turbocharger to operate at maximum power. As the
boost pressure through line increases against the diaphragm in canister the valve of the wastegate
is opened. when the valve of the wastegate is opened, the rpm of turbocharger is limited by
bypassing a portion of exhaust gases. The exhaust gases are routed through the wastegate
which bypasses the turbine wheel of the turbocharger.
There has been many questions about turbo boost. Each engine turbo boost is preset at certain
Turbo boost pressure. Example C-9 400 hp. 32 pound of boost pressure, some people say that
they have 46 pounds of boost pressure on there engine. Is is incorrect the more boost pressure
just opens the wastegate further to control correct engine rpm engine is rated for. With boost
pressure more pressure one would think I'm getting more power is again is incorrect statement.
I have shown a cutaway turbocharger at few beaver seminars and explained how boost works.
Dave Atherton retired Cat Mechanic
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