New Beaver Owner - Hot Water, Generator and Jacks issues - All Resolved Now.

[Tim Schafer]

I just picked up a 1997 Beaver Patriot Camden from a police impound sale.  I have figured most things out on it as I also own a 83 motorhome and had to figure out all the things on it.  However, the beaver is a whole different beast....

The issues I am currently facing are, the coach will not start on the chassis batteries, they are dead according the computer, they show 10.4 - 11.2 volts even after running it for over an hour driving it home and plugging it into a 50 amp plug overnight.  They are only 4 months old, but it sat in the impound without AC hooked up to it, so I think the engine drained them and killed them.  It will start off the alternate start button.  I am going back to where the batteries were purchased from and have them replace the batteries.  I mention the batteries because I am hoping they may be causing 2 of the 3 main issues I am facing.

The generator will start and run if I hold down the alternate start button, but as soon as I release the button it turns off.  May be related to the batteries, not sure.

The jacks power up with the power button, but as soon as I press any of the buttons to lower the jacks it immediately turns off.

The aquahot turned on as soon as I plugged it in, even tho I have the hot water switch turned off.  But I have zero water pressure on the hot side, cold water works at all the fixtures, but no pressure on hot.  Assuming there is a shutoff that I am just missing somewhere, but I sure can't find it.

I have checked at the water manifold and they are all turned on.  Since none of the fixtures have any pressure, I'm guessing the shutoff is before the manifold.

They did get it winterized the first winter it was impounded, and I flushed antifreeze out of the lines when I connected city water pressure, at least on the cold side.

I am currently at home and it's currently sitting at the camp grounds, so if you ask me what brand any of the items are, I will have to wait until I get back over there tomorrow night to find out the brands.

It did come with several manuals, for just about everything in the coach, but nothing I found talked about any of the issues I am seeing.

Any info anyone can provide would be great.

Thanks,

Tim Schafer

[Jerry Emert]

Tim and Annie, welcome to the BAC.  It's a great group, helpful and very knowledgeable.  I hope someone can steer you on to the fix for your issues.
Jerry 

[Lee Welbanks]

Tim,,Welcome to the Beaver world.

It sounds like your chassis bat's are DOA, killed, shot. The generator starts off the chassis battery's and the voltage is to low to keep it running, most of these gen sets do not have a onboard alt for charging they rely on the coach chassis bat's.

Hope someone else can clue in on the hot water, aqua hot problem. Most of use rely on Roger Berke who is the Aqua Hot expert.
http://forum.rvhydronicheaterrepair.com/activity.php

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Tim,
Suggest you get your batteries replaced before any other troubleshooting. With chassis batteries as bad as you report it is possible that house units are also marginal. What voltage do you get with the charger off? 11.9 or lower and they are totally discharged.
I suspect all you problems except water are battery related. Do you experience no hot water pressure when using the coach tank / water pump and when hooked to park water with pump off?
Steve

[Keith Moffett]

Tim
re:the water
Look in the plumbing bay.  All those knobs are low point drains.  Are the drains turned on or off?
Also check the fresh water tank fill valve in the same bay.  Be sure it is turned off or oposite the fill side because if it were left on it could do what you describe.

There should be two chassis batteries and four 6 volt house batteries.  It is common to have a battery shut off switch for both (so two switches).  Make sure both are on.  Also make sure the charger is turned on at the monitor panel  which is often in a small cabinet above the entry door.  It will say charger / inverter and is designed so that you can run on shore power and turn the charger off when needed.
Now put  a test meter on house batteries.  If they are charged the charger should begin to charge the chassis batteries.

Caution!  If your chassis batteries are dead and you try to start the motor or even get it started using the hoise battery switch, you can put too much strain on the alternator and it will blow.  This is a Leese Neville alternator worth over $600.   If the batteries are new and not dry, they should charge even if you have to get a seperate battery charger and leave it on over night.
It sounds like most of your problems are easily fixed and hopefuly you will be up and running soon.  Welcome to the family!
Keith

[Tim Schafer]

There are 2 solar panels on the roof and they seem to have kept the house batteries topped off.  They were also replaced 4 months ago.  The night we picked it up we spent 2 hours trying to start the beast.  I had just started it 2 weeks earlier and it started up in under 5 seconds of cranking.  We drained the house batteries pretty bad that night, but they kept doing their job for 2 hours.  (That wasn't continuous cranking, 10-15 second cranks every few minutes).  We finally got it started after pressing the air purge button on the fuel system.  I assumed it was for the air suspension, but apparently there was one for the fuel and since then it starts in 3-5 seconds of cranking.  As we were getting ready to leave we realized how badly rotted one of the front tires was and limped it over to a truck tire place.  Ended up having to replace both steer tires.  The 4 in the rear are all in decent shape, but the 2 front ones didn't age well.  So that cost me $588 for both before I had even got to drive the thing...

Once started I had power at the dash, to the computer, etc, so I'm pretty sure the alternator is still good.  But yeah, I do intend to replace the chassis batteries as quick as I can.

I'm waiting for the police to get me a copy of the receipt for the batteries so I can return them.

I have not run the water from the pump, so far just city pressure.  When I checked last night the pump wasn't even hooked up, I'm guessing from when it was winterized, so we hooked it back up, When I hooked up city pressure I did turn the knob for the fill valve to figure out which way was which and I could hear it filling the tank but I only left it in that position for a few seconds, so I will need to fill it some more.

All of the low point drains seem to be off, because I turned each one to figure out what it was and saw water shoot out the bottom of the coach and turned them back off.

It appears the previous owners tried to hook up some sort of water filter because in the box where the ice maker hookup is, it's just hanging loose not attached, and there are no pipes of the correct diameter for it to hook to.  There is also some blue pipe that matches the picture on the box for the filter, but the filter itself isn't hooked up, it's still in the box.  So for now I don't have it hooked up.  However while we were hooking up the pump, the output side of the pump tee's and I accidently bumped the filter pipe and it loosened it enough that it started to leak water, I quickly ran over and turned off city pressure, but this line sprayed for several minutes, and here's the weird part, the last few gallons of water that came out were very hot.  So it appears the aquahot is producing hot water, but again it's never reaching any of the fixtures.

We found a shutoff valve on the passenger side, approx directly across from the aquahot, no other water pipes in the area, just a single shut off knob.  We turned it approx 180 degrees and went inside to test the hot water, still nothing.  Anyone know what this valve is for?  It didn't seem to make any difference, and was extremely hard to turn, we were scared of it breaking.

I will try to get some pictures of the plumbing/pump bay so you can see what I mean about no place for the ice maker to hookup.

Another question, has anyone ever had the washer/dryer combo serviced?  Ours is acting like there is a belt not connected, the drum never turns, but it goes thru the rest of the cycles.  Just curious if this will be an expensive repair or not.

Thanks,

Tim & Ann Schafer

[Tim Schafer]

Tim
re:the water
Look in the plumbing bay.  All those knobs are low point drains.  Are the drains turned on or off?
Also check the fresh water tank fill valve in the same bay.  Be sure it is turned off or oposite the fill side because if it were left on it could do what you describe.

There should be two chassis batteries and four 6 volt house batteries.  It is common to have a battery shut off switch for both (so two switches).  Make sure both are on.  Also make sure the charger is turned on at the monitor panel  which is often in a small cabinet above the entry door.  It will say charger / inverter and is designed so that you can run on shore power and turn the charger off when needed.
Now put  a test meter on house batteries.  If they are charged the charger should begin to charge the chassis batteries.

Caution!  If your chassis batteries are dead and you try to start the motor or even get it started using the hoise battery switch, you can put too much strain on the alternator and it will blow.  This is a Leese Neville alternator worth over $600.   If the batteries are new and not dry, they should charge even if you have to get a seperate battery charger and leave it on over night.
It sounds like most of your problems are easily fixed and hopefuly you will be up and running soon.  Welcome to the family!
Keith

If there are battery disconnects 5 grown men couldn't find them, lol.  We were pretty sure that was the issue with the chassis batteries originally since they were so new I figured they should at least light up the dash.  But the dash would only come to life when holding the alternate start button.

Anyone have pictures or specific places to look for them?  We checked the entire battery compartment and under the hood and all of the electronic bays and there was nothing that looked like a shutoff.

The invertor is powered up, shows it's receiving AC input and says it is charging.  It shows 13 v and less than 10amp

So this has to be turned on for the battery charging to work?  I assumed just having the coach plugged in would charge.  We have been leaving the invertor on tho.

Thanks,

Tim & Ann Schafer

[Tom and Pam Brown]

Tim, not sure where yours are, however, mine is in the battery bay about hinge level.  You have to look up to them.  Hope this helps.

[Joel Weiss]

It appears the previous owners tried to hook up some sort of water filter because in the box where the ice maker hookup is, it's just hanging loose not attached, and there are no pipes of the correct diameter for it to hook to.  There is also some blue pipe that matches the picture on the box for the filter, but the filter itself isn't hooked up, it's still in the box.  So for now I don't have it hooked up.

The MH came with a small filter JUST FOR THE ICEMAKER that sits in that box.  The PO may have decided to bypass it, particularly if he used a whole-house filter as we do.  My whole house filter provides the same level of filtering as the small one did and has a lot more capacity.

[Joel Weiss]

If there are battery disconnects 5 grown men couldn't find them, lol.  We were pretty sure that was the issue with the chassis batteries originally since they were so new I figured they should at least light up the dash.  But the dash would only come to life when holding the alternate start button.

MY Beaver doesn't have any battery disconnects either.  People here sometimes forget that the three different Beavers ("original", SMC and Monaco) have some rather different basic design characteristics.

[Tim Schafer]

Any idea which of the 3 makers were involved in 1997?

Thanks,

Tim Schafer

If there are battery disconnects 5 grown men couldn't find them, lol.  We were pretty sure that was the issue with the chassis batteries originally since they were so new I figured they should at least light up the dash.  But the dash would only come to life when holding the alternate start button.

MY Beaver doesn't have any battery disconnects either.  People here sometimes forget that the three different Beavers ("original", SMC and Monaco) have some rather different basic design characteristics.

[Edward Buker]

Tim,

If the house batteries are being charged while the coach is being plugged in probably the simplest thing you could do to maintain battery charging on the chassis side is to have someone move the rocker switch that does the battery banks together and you listen to which solenoid is clicking in the battery compartment. There will be a number on that unit. Look it up and see if it is continuous duty rated. If it is you can parallel an on off switch to the momentary rocker switch and keep those batteries tied together while plugged in. Some coaches are wired so that in the accessory position this solenoid is activated and will allow charging. The other more elegant option is to add one of these units to the battery bay.

http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-82-0123-01-Echo-Charge-Systems/dp/B0016G8RT8?

It measures voltages on both house and chassis batteries and only connects them together when it is appropriate and current limits the charge to about 15 amps on the chassis side. It is a simple three wire install to ground and if the isolator is located nearby the mounting location, you tie to the two battery posts on the isolator. This allows the battery tray to pull out without these wires being involved. The only caution is if you spray water in the compartment to protect this unit from getting wet. Most owners have found the need to have an onboard charger for the chassis battery side.

Later Ed

[Tim Schafer]

I was under the impression that the charger also kept the chassis batteries charged.  Are you saying that only the alternator when the engine is running charges the chassis batteries?

I haven't tried putting a battery charger on the chassis batteries, wasn't sure it would work since there are two of them.  I could charge them individually and see what that does.  But my guess is since they sat dead for so long they are probably sulfated and damaged anyways.

I will check on the solenoid, and see which model it is.  How will I know if my coach is one of the ones that charges in the accessory position?

Does Monaco have specs on units sold before Monaco purchased SMC/Beaver?

Would it be worth the effort to call them with my unit serial # and see what "features" it came with from the factory?

Thanks,

Tim Schafer

Tim,

If the house batteries are being charged while the coach is being plugged in probably the simplest thing you could do to maintain battery charging on the chassis side is to have someone move the rocker switch that toes the battery banks together and you listen to which solenoid is clicking in the battery compartment. There will be a number on that unit. Look it up and see if it is continuous duty rated. If it is you can parallel an on off switch to the momentary rocker switch and keep those batteries tied together while plugged in. Some coaches are wired so that in the accessory position this solenoid is activated and will allow charging. The other more elegant option is to add one of these units to the battery bay.

http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-82-0123-01-Echo-Charge-Systems/dp/B0016G8RT8?

It measures voltages on both house and chassis batteries and only connects them together when it is appropriate and current limits the charge to about 15 amps on the chassis side. It is a simple three wire install to ground and if the isolator is located nearby the mounting location, you tie to the two battery posts on the isolator. This allows the battery tray to pull out without these wires being involved. The only caution is if you spray water in the compartment to protect this unit from getting wet. Most owners have found the need to have an onboard charger for the chassis battery side.

Later Ed

[Edward Buker]

Tim,

On most of these coaches there is some draw of the chassis batteries when the ignition is off. In many the engine ECU (computer) is left powered and draws almost two amps and will kill the battery in a couple of days. Most all of these coaches did not have a charge system that operated while sitting for the chassis batteries unless it was added, as an accessory by the factory or an owner, it was not standard.

You would measure the voltage while plugged in and charging on the house batteries and chassis batteries. Turn on the ignition to the accessory position and measure the house and chassis battery voltage again and see if the chassis batteries are rising in voltage.

Not sure there is anyone to call, the older Beavers are not supported, too many industry changes to have any continuity. There are some good repair shops and the forum to help.

I would be sure and charge the chassis bank well before I made a decision on their quality. They may be sulfated but they may have good capacity. Once you know you have a working charging method while sitting you will be able to sort that out.

Later Ed

[Joel Weiss]

Does Monaco have specs on units sold before Monaco purchased SMC/Beaver?

It's my understanding that Monaco destroyed all build information for MHs built before 2003, another reason why I don't have any fondness for the company.