Hydraulic Fuel Line Hose

[Dick Simonis]

I just want to extend a THANK YOU to those that uncovered and disclosed the issues with the hydraulic hose used on our older MH's primary fuel filter.

Today I had Empire Cat in Tucson do routine maintenance and also change the hose form the primary filter to the fuel pump.  The report was that it was badly compromised with much deterioration on the inside...outside looked just fine.  There was significant blockage to flow on the inside and evidence that inner lining material was passing into the fuel lift pump.

To those that have not replaced this hose....I suggest you do not delay.

Again, thanks for the warning.

Dick

[Dave Atherton]

Dick thanks for taking your time on reporting back on this hydraulic hose used for fuel
line problem. I have changed 10 of the problem hoses and found with video cam some
had rubber inside showing the steel braids along one side on bend of hydraulic hose. Yes
Some did not look to bad but were leaking at hydraulic crimp fitting to out side. One I cannot
say enough about with just a little flaking at suction inlet of fuel transfer pump will start
failure in a very big way as several component up stream are affected. I will be doing
Diagonostic Seminars  at Rayne, La and Tallahassee, Fl. and have all information in detail
along with some of the hydraulic hoses that failed to the Beaver group. I have made several
post on forum to bring this problem to everyone's attention along with a few pictures Fred Brooks
taken and posted for me. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Machanic

[Joel Ashley]

Dave-
Remind us which year range and model coaches may have this issue... ?  Is it '96 to '03 and any CAT engine?

I don't think my '06 is involved, but there are new members here, owners of used coaches, that may not have read the previous threads.

Thanks,
Joel

[Lee Welbanks]

Joel,

My 06 PT has all plastic fuel lines, tank to water/fuel separator, to lift pump on front of C-13. From the pump to the secondary filter it is steel flared tubing hard line.
Just take a look at you fuel line out of the tank to the first filter and son on, mine happens to be yellow 5/8" plastic tube.

[Dave Atherton]

Joel, the engines in question start 1996 to 04 than I appears they changed to plastic
fuel line. Ran into problem early 2115 with low power and leaking or wet hydraulic
crimp fittings. This will pertain to all our Cat engines that builder had installed hydraulic
hose. One thing it appears that hydraulic hose used as fuel line Gates Brand. Parker hydraulic
fuel line which changed out was like new on a 3126 A model Cat. My main concern other
Than the hydraulic hose problem is air into the suction side of fuel from front fuel tank
To fuel transfer pump. Both problems do not lead us down a very good path as far as outlay
Of money. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Dave Atherton]

Gentleman, started another post on hydraulic fuel line failure to bring members who did
see earlier post in 2115 and again in January of this year. Doing this left Dick posting on
Empire Cat service on his engine and confirm findings that been pass along from earlier
Post starting in 2115. Dick second post on fuel level at his Racor water/fuel filter with engine
running. What all this is telling everyone that has just tuned in( fuel starvation and low
fuel pressure) that is leading to bigger failure as I have been posting. The root cause starting
at hydraulic hose failure had started and will cause additional failure up stream from this
hydraulic hose the aftermath up stream we to prevent if all possible. Again Dick thank you
for  feed back in bring this problem to membership. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Joel Weiss]

The folks at Fabick CAT in Columbia MO replaced our old fuel hose today while, at the same time, getting rid of all that Racor junk!  We now have a CAT primary filter to go with our existing CAT secondary filter.  Finally, no more plastic tubes and hard to find filters!    And no more leakage.  Thanks, Dave Atherton for bringing this to our attention.  BTW, the CAT parts needed to make this switch cost ~$110.

Anyone who wants a Racor S3230P filter still in plastic shrinkwrap I'll be glad to send it to you for $20.  It cost me $33 last month before I decided to get rid of the Racor once and for all.

This is what the new filter setup looks like; the CAT guys fashioned a simple bracket to hold the filter base:

[Greg Kamper]

So, is this something I should have had fixed when I had my hydraulic lines fixed last month? How do I know if the previous owner(s) have changed it out or not? (2000 Patriot Thunder)

[Joel Weiss]

So, is this something I should have had fixed when I had my hydraulic lines fixed last month? How do I know if the previous owner(s) have changed it out or not? (2000 Patriot Thunder)

Very unlikely IMO that anyone would have changed this out prior to Dave having brought it to people's attention. 

[Keith Moffett]

Dave, so for clarity the idea is to replace any hose that runs fuel?

[Dave Atherton]

Keith, yes replacement hose that is for diesel fuel. The hose in question that is problem,
is located on the discharge side of the fuel/water primary filter to the fuel transfer pump
suction side. The name on hose ( Gates Global ) and about 4 feet long and replacement
will correct problem. Dave Atherton Retired Cat mechanic

[Joel Weiss]

Dave, so for clarity the idea is to replace any hose that runs fuel?

Ideally, one might want to replace all the old fuel line, but the important one, as Dave has explained it, is the one between the primary filter and the fuel pump because any debris from that hose would go directly into the pump.  Debris from hoses ahead of the filter would be caught by the filter.

[Mike Groves]

All,

I had Peterson CAT in Portland replace my line between the primary fuel filter and lift pump.  Wow, what an extravagant repair that was.  Total cost was 760.00 including 6 HOURS and about $160.00 in parts.  I think I should have looked up the parts Dave mentioned.  I think he pointed out the parts needed for the new hose.

When they called me, a day after I dropped it off, they told me that they took a couple of mis-directions in acquiring proper plastic fuel line (from freightliner I think he said) and that tomorrow (which was a Friday - I dropped it off on Wednesday before noon) they would put the new fuel line on.  I asked about the bill (as I'd not received an estimate) and he said he though $500 to $600.  I was surprised, thinking maybe $400.

They called me Friday afternoon and said "all done".  I went in and the service manager told me (as he handed me the bill) that it actually "cost more than what I am charging you but I couldn't justify that expense".  So I look at the bill and its not $500 or even $600, rather its $756.00.  He explained to me that it was quite an intricate job (I bet!!!) because the new plastic line was stiff unlike the old hydraulic line.  He said they had to use a "special elbow". 

As I approached the coach I really expected to see 6 hours worth of very intricate work, but when I flipped up the rear engine access, I quickly found the new shiny fitting starting right at me (I didn't even know where the life pump was and now I do).  So, I looked at the new line and essentially that line starts at the lift pump with a straight on connector, heads to the left and does a single 1/2 spiral in mid air back towards the filter bay.  At the filter bay it appears that they may have chinked away some of the bay to route the line to the primary pump (perhaps to fit the new connector through) and YES that connector appears to be a right angle connector.  Oh, and then the invoice says they steam cleaned the engine and filter bay (not very well done in the filter bay as I mopped up diesel/water mixture throughout.

So, in 6 hours (more according to the service manger - I just didn't have to pay for it) over a 48 hour period, they removed the old line (2 connectors right?), had to figure out how to keep the fuel contained (which I believe is the hardest part but its probably easy if you're a pro), THEN they had to use their professionalism to have a new line constructed that would work.  This evidently is where these pros fell down miserably for HOURS.

At this time there is no evidence that I replaced a failing line as indicated in this thread but I have yet to cut into it to inspect it.  They didn't find any evidence on their part (but thank goodness I didn't ask them for a forensic report on it).

For other owners of this era SMC Coach, I urge you to submit a parts list to Caterpillar or other shop as I should have done.  I think Dave gave that parts list out but I am not sure - I haven't gone back to review this thread.  I'll look and see and if not (my memory sometimes slips me up) I will provide the parts list they showed on my billing.

Bottom line there is absolutely NO REASON to spend 6 hours changing out a single 4-5 ft hose as a professional in my opinion.  That is not professionalism which is what I thought I was paying for.  It was more like trial and error.  Is this the state of professionalism in the world today?

Ok, I feel better now.

Mike

 

[Joel Weiss]

Mike:

I think you did get "hosed" a bit on that repair and I can say this because Fabick CAT in Columbia MO just replaced my fuel line and more for significantly less money.  I had the Racor primary filter removed and replaced by a CAT filter along with replacement of the hose and the entire bill was $504.97 including the new filter assembly.  As Dave Atherton has previously noted I got charged for ~$17 of new hose plus the labor to install it.

Joel

[Jim Houghton]

Does this issue only apply to those with a Cat engine configuration? We own an 03 with a Cummins ISL and would like to correct this if it is even an issue.