Hydraulic Fuel Line Hose

[Dave Atherton]

William, yes you are very correct little air in system. The longer you idle before driving, air
will go away. If this starts getting worse ( air in fuel system ). I can hep you through the
problem that you can do yourself. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Keith Moffett]

Dave, not to complain but I am unsure of the part numbers you provided.  I went to CAT today and they found the part number for the hose but the fittings and so on werent CAT part numbers.
Could you enlighten me?
thanks much!

[Dave Atherton]

Keith, recheck Cat invoice on part numbers on your question. Page 2, reply #19 has all
information by LaMonte. Empire Cat, Blythe Cal. All the Cat tech need to assemble hose has to
go to there hydraulic fittings and pick out one fitting that fit Into hydraulic hose with a
1/2 -8  JIC female swivel and one fitting that will fit hydraulic hose with -10 JIC female
Swivel. Note the bigger end attach to fuel transfer pump on engine for C-12. What is happening
everything has to be found with the computer in parts desk and numbers not coming up,
but going out to hydraulic shop where fittings, hose and hose press located ( yes they have
the correct fittings it is a no brainer. We had same problem at Rayne, La. that had everything
in hydraulic shop but would not make up the hose. We ended up going down the road to
Parker Hannifin that made our hoses. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic.     

[Dave Atherton]

Gentleman, it is starting to seem that a problem getting fuel hose made up at Caterpillar
Dealer is getting very involved ( where it should not be a problem ). after reading about
the very good intentions of membership trying to correct a very serious problem by just
having a fuel hose made up that pertains to operation of engine made by them. Does not
make me happy. Review back and look at post # 22 about the Parker Haniffin hose that
that meets and exceeds all spec required. Again Parker hydraulic hose # 451TC/ST and
All that is needed for fittings for a C-12 one end  -8 JIC female swivel and the other end
-8 to -10 JIC female swivel and measure length of your old hose. Cat C-9 and down has
-8 JIC female swivel fittings on both ends  ( on the 3126 A,B,E will need a 45 degree adapter
-8 that has a male and female swivel ).  Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Mike Groves]

Dave,

Just wanted to reiterate that I would probably have saved $100s of dollars if I'd simply said replace my old hydraulic hose with a new hydraulic hose.  It appears that what you're describing as a workable solution is no longer a plastic hose (which cost me $100s of dollars more) but another hydraulic hose.  Is that right?

If it is, then its very important that anyone getting a CAT shop to do this work specific that replacement with a hydraulic hose is OK!

In my case evidently the Portland, Oregon CAT shop acquired a hydraulic hose, but then the manager informed them "NO it's to be a plastic hose that the customer requested", so evidently I wound up purchasing both (numerous fittings on my bill) including the time to acquire same.

I wish I had known $760 ago that a new hydraulic hose was acceptable - it just didn't dawn on me that since my existing hydraulic hose had lasted since 1998 with no ill effects that a new one would be fine.  That was just poor thinking on my part, I guess.  But then again who knew that the same hose made of plastic would cost me 100s of dollars more?

Mike

[Dave Atherton]

Mike, following information and and many questions asked about the hydraulic hose fuel
line failure. It always has been about the rubber hydraulic hose and location of hose in
question. Going back on my notes, questions asked what years did they put on hydraulic
hose for fuel line. When did they change over to plastic fuel line. My answer to all questions
thought 2004 plastic fuel because some beavers had plastic fuel line. While on subject of
Plastic fuel lines also problems with type of connectors push in o-ring with plastic retainer.
Staying with problem air entering fuel system, the older 1996-2004 hydraulic hose that
had failed, and 2004 and newer push in o-ring with plastic retainer also created problem
that allowed air into the fuel system. Sorry that you did not understand everything that has
been posted but again to bring out this problem I thought about this many times to look the other
direction and say nothing. There has been many repairs made ( high dollar ), many people
down on Cat engine high cost to own etc. but nobody addressed the root cause at Service Shops
to owner about air within the fuel system.  Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[steve zannella]

I've been following this subject and decided take a look at my 04 marquis fuel line setup.
 From what I can determine, a hydraulic fuel hose (A) goes to the Racor water separator and then from the separator a hydraulic hose (B) goes to the fuel lift pump at the rear bottom of the c12 and then 2 metal lines come out of the fuel lift pump.

My questions is which fuel line A or B should be replaced, or should both be replaced?

Steve

[Dave Atherton]

Steve.the hydraulic hose that goes from water/fuel Racor setup,  this is also the hose to fuel transfer pump on the bottom
right side of your C-12. Before you remove hose wipe off outside rubber jacket and look for print in white letters that
says Gates Global ( this is the hose that failed. If you see the word Parker in print on hose, you do not need to remove
hose ( Parker hose is ok ). You will notice the hose fitting on top of fuel transfer pump has a bigger Hex on swivel than
fitting back at Racor water/fuel setup. In case Cat dealer has a problem, take hose to Parker Hannifin that will make up
correct hose you need.  Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Adam Hicklin]

Dave, would I be able to just remove the line in question, take it to the Cat dealer and ask for a new line to be made up, then re-install it my self?  That line isn't under pressure.  I imagine there may be some leaking fuel issues that could be overcome.  Seems like it might be easier than than dealing with Cat about this fitting or that or part numbers.  Take it to them and say, "make me a fuel line exactly like this one" Is it more complicated than that? As far as the removal and installation? 

[Dave Atherton]

Adam, yes you can remove the fuel hydraulic hose yourself. First you will need two wrenches,
One crescent wrench and one 7/8 open end wrench. First remove hose fittings on the water/fuel
filter,will get about 1/2cup of diesel fuel from hose than use the crescent wrench and remove
Fitting from fuel transfer pump. Than cut plastic zip ties holding hydraulic hose. Before removing hydraulic hose wipe off outside rubber and look for print in white letters ( Gates Global ) if it
does remove hose and replace. If hydraulic hose shows Parker on outside, the hydraulic hose
is ok (do not remove.) would suggest look up and see if there is a Parker Hannifin hydraulic shop
in the area. I posted all the numbers on post # 22 on hydraulic fuel line made by Parker and
price $ 45.00 to $ 50.00.  This will give you a second choice if for some reason Cat cannot build
hose. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Mike Groves]

I just want to make absolutely clear to everyone that you DO NOT have to and should not replace your rubber hydraulic hose running from the racor filter to the lift pump with a PLASTIC HOSE. 

This is where I found my confusion with the entire thread on replacing the existing hydraulic rubber hose.  My confusion was that it WAS NECESSARY to replace it with a plastic hose but since a plastic hose is more brittle than the rubber hose the folks at Peterson CAT in Portland, Oregon had to spend obviously quite a bit of time attaching the hose at the RACOR filter/water separator unit in the maintenance bay.  They actually CUT OUT part of the bay area above the filter (rather than use the existing hole previously occupied by the rubber hydraulic hose).  The reason was the brittleness of the plastic hose I thought was necessary.

So do not use plastic hose for this vintage Beaver.  Just have the shop use rubber hydraulic hose.  I think this finally clears up the issue and will save you hundreds of dollars believe me.

Mike

[Dave Atherton]

Mike, the problem has been with rubber hose failure. Use of plastic hose as a replacement
starting after 2004 with beavers that plastic fuel lines has a probem with the connections
with the o-ring push in connector with plastic retainer. Plastic hose has been used going
back into the late 90's with Cummins engines. Alpine and Country both for example go back
to when they were first built.
Let's go back to Caterpiller thoughts on plastic hose fuel hose cannot be used because of plastic cracking etc. this a incorrect statement. Cat is a very heavy user of plastic hose in there hydraulic
systems, fuel systems etc. on off road equipment in the 90's as well as today. Fuel systems Cat
from steel lines to plastic. Hydraulic system pilot hoses that operate valves in all there open
center hydraulic valves. Plastic pilot hoses psi pressure rating 450 psi to 600 psi. They also use
crimp type hydraulic connectors that come with Cat o-ring flat face or JIC connectors which they
have in stock also. Again yes Cat Dealer has everything a person need for this problem rubber or
Plastic. Do not get me wrong Mike it is not all your fault about Cat dealer actions and it's very
hard to understand direction they taken. My only answer to all this it was about money, there is
little money to be made even with a build of rubber hose, but they manage to run the bill up
and say whatever to you explaining what they done. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Mike Groves]

I just wanted to make it clear to others who've not done this yet that using hydraulic hose is what you want to do.  Otherwise you may wind up paying $756 to change out a 4 ft hose. 

Mike

[steve zannella]

Dave

Regarding my previous question if the bad hose was (A) from filter to  water separator or (B) water separator to Fuel Lift Pump why would you not replace both hoses?

Steve 

[Dave Atherton]

Steve, you will need to just change out ( B ) filter to pump. Your water/fuel filter
Will pick up everything from the front fuel tank at the water/ fuel filter from going
into fuel system. Reason to change hose if it says gates global because is failing and
Pieces of rubber will stop or restrict flow to fuel transfer pump and fuel rail. ( break down
Of this hose is unprotected from any filter. Yes you can change hose from front fuel tank but is very costly. Dave Atherton Retired cat Mechanic