Author Topic: Biodiesel blend  (Read 18646 times)

George Harwell

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Biodiesel blend
« on: September 21, 2016, 03:11:32 PM »
With the B20 blend of biodiesel becoming more prevalent I decided to dig a little deeper. There are multiple reasons for the blend and one is to provide lubrication qualities lost by reduction of sulphur over the last 10 to 15 years. Another is the $1.00 per gallon tax incentive provided by the federal government to the oil companys. My research led me to CUMMINS website where I was shocked to discover my ISC engine is not certified for B20 biodiesel use. I fired off an e-mail to CUMMINS and got the results yesterday. The ISC 350 in my 03 Monterey was built in August 2002 and is not certified for bio blend B20. Furthermore they made it clear that CUMMINS does not endorse the use of additives. I use Stanadyne twice a year around the time the oil companys do their seasonal change. My coach has 126,000 miles and the engine hasn't been touched by CUMMINS so I feel fortunate. I have had concerns about biodiesel use so will have to spend more time searching for truck stops with B15 or less blend. Another recommendation from CUMMINS was to always carry spare filters.
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Dave Atherton

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2016, 04:10:59 PM »
George, this is  big problem and what I'm told to change engine fuel filter at earlier
Service times. The Bio fuel replys on higher engine temps to work correctly and with a
motorhome that only uses 35% of its power with the big engines ( ECM readout provides
percent of avaible h.p. used ). Kinda hard to work your engine. Basic changing engine fuel
filter and keeping one extra filter on board. What I have found that will help reduce Bio fuel
in the fuel system and fuel filter is called 911 that one quart will treat 100 gallons of fuel
for around $ 8.00 and has bought power back and 2 mpg. Very good subject that needs
attention from many. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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George Harwell

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2016, 10:05:43 PM »
Thanks Dave, always good to guidance from an expert. There's loads of info on the Internet, some true and some not so I rely on CUMMINS for the truth.

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2016, 02:45:52 AM »
George,
Where are you finding =< B15 biodiesel? Best I've been able to locate is B18 (Loves). Also, what is your reference source?
Thx, Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Roy C Tyler

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2016, 03:39:32 AM »
Steve, the Pacific Pride station across from the scales in Ashland Oregon has B20.  This is right off of Interstate 5 at exit 19 on the west side of freeway.

George Harwell

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2016, 03:01:03 PM »
Steve, I go to the major truck stop websites such as Flying J, Loves, Petro, T/A, Valero, etc. to do a fuel price search by state. The results usually include the amount of blend along with the fuel price. It is harder to get information on the privately owned truck stops but Roadys is one that I found. Keep in mind, the information is available, finding it is challenging and time consuming as I am not highly skilled with computers. There are several good sources of information and Wikipedia.org is really good at explaining the facts. I found a lot of trade associations, state government, federal government and forums that cover biodiesel, especially the tax incentives by the state and federal governments to the oil companies. While being personal opinions there is a good forum on FMCA if you search for, Biodiesel impact on all engines. In my opinion this is being driven by the  GREEN ENERGY movement while totally disregarding the damage it can cause. Steve, I feel like I'm in quicksand with no lifeline in sight.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 07:29:20 PM by George Harwell »

Edward Buker

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2016, 03:31:49 PM »
 Our Bio source is primarily from soybean esters and that was what was focused on here. What they did is went to the field and sampled petroleum based ULSD petroleum based stock and the Biofuel that would be blended in. They found the following...

Property               ULSD              Biodiesel
                                          TX      FL      MD     MN
Initial Water PPM    107       363    474     594    361
Sat. Water PPM      153      1829   1971   1574  1738
Partic. MG/L           .5          5.5      23       6        7

What is clear to me is that the petroleum based ULSD is by far better raw fuel stock for both water content and particulate content. The Bio samples, because they are a single random samples in no way represent any worst case as to how bad these properties can get. In general in the bio-stock you can expect to have 5 to 15x the water concentration and 10 to 20 times the particulate level. The problem does not stop there because the bio-stock has much more affinity to absorb water in all the other phases of transportation and storage so these are best case raw stock numbers. The expected problems that are created by the bio-blend are outlined in the paragraph below where I note the conference paper.

What this all means to us in defense, is that we need as best we can in our travels, to plan our fuel stops and avoid B20 or other higher blend levels whenever we can. It is particularly important if you are storing your coach for a longer period of time in a humid area. My east coast side of the country travels this summer, fueling along I81, I was dismayed to see Flying J and Pilot were only selling B20. I pulled out of those stations and I am trying to buy just Chevron fuel which I have yet to see a Bio Blend level sticker on and I have verified several times that they are are not blending Chevron diesel with bio-stock, at least in my area.

Because of the water absorption issues and the particulate issue you can anticipate that the need for filter changes will happen sooner, but more importantly if you have to use B20, you will have more water available sitting in all of your fuel system due to the nature of the beast that can grow algae in the tank or damage parts. I think the over the road truckers whose rigs do not sit will have less of a problem with the water absorption issues then us RV folks but they will see more filter changes in general. A fuel that has an affinity and a capacity to absorb more water is a problem that our filtration and engine fuel system has not been designed to accommodate....so as with other things in life we need to manage it as best we can.

American Filtration & Separation Society Annual
Conference, May 19-22 (2008) Valley Forge, PA

The biodiesel molecules indeed have very high affinity to water though, as can be seen
from the water concentration analysis. The dissolved water concentration for diesel fuel
is typically in the range of 30 ppm to 180 ppm. Biodiesel does dissolve more water, over
300 ppm, and this is not a surprise considering the nature of those ester molecules, which
are more polar than petrodiesel fuel molecules consisting mainly of hydrogen and carbon
atoms. What’s more interesting is that, when biodiesel is mixed with free water to reach
phase equilibrium for water saturation in the fuel, 2.5-5 times more water is dissolved
depending on the source of the original biodiesel, as shown in Table 1. This is important
because we normally pay attention only to free or emulsified water filtration, but the huge
increase in water solubility in neat biodiesel compared to ULSD can also be a major
concern. The existence of such dissolved water can promote biodiesel hydrolysis to break
down the fuel molecules, which will raise the fuel’s surfactancy due to the formation of
carboxylic acids; it will also promote bacteria growth and fuel oxidation, and possibly
affect the fuel combustion and cause corrosion problems. The separation of significant
amount of dissolved water will redirect fuel filter design in practice. However, all these
problems could be mitigated by using biodiesel blend with relatively small blending ratio.
The challenge to avoiding major water ingression to biodiesel therefore lies in the
operational chain of fuel storage, shipping, handling and blending before the blended fuel
is used to power an engine.

Ed back again...I was also looking at issues beyond contamination, this is info on blending. This info comes from a Bio-Diesel Handling And Use Guide available in PDF form on the web. When it is labeled B20 are you pumping B20? That relies on many other factors and diligence and training of the fuel suppliers...This line gave me pause..."Biodiesel is heavier, so it may stay, unmixed, at the bottom of the tank."

It is not assured that the biodiesel component, which has a different specific gravity then petroleum based diesel was well mixed and the colder the temperature the harder it is to get the blend methods to work. Biodiesel is heavier and more viscous and it requires vigorous agitation to blend it. They note if added to the bottom of the tank it will sit in a layer, if added to the top of the tank it will sink to the bottom and make a layer. It requires vigorous agitation to create the final blend. Beyond the water, contamination, there is the blending problems that when you pull to the pump and it says B20, am I pumping B5 or B40 right now?...not sure I would say. Obviously most of us will have to pump B20 at some point, just do the best you can to manage how much of it you use, which is what I am doing, especially when the coach is going to sit. Hope this helps.

Later Ed

« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 03:33:26 PM by Edward Buker »

George Harwell

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2016, 07:27:28 PM »
Thank you Ed for your most informative article. As I have suspected for some time now we really have to do some homework to find good fuel. Due to the introduction of biodiesel I will be dropping my oil change interval to 10,000 miles. So now that I am getting less mpg with less power and changing oil more often begs the question, is it really worth it.

Edward Buker

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2016, 10:56:42 PM »
George,

I am not sure that the use of bio blended diesel should have any affect on engine oil change intervals. I have not seen that come up. The raw bio stock has about 8%-10% less energy per gallon then the petroleum based stock. The way they arrive at the 2% lower energy and mileage per gallon of fuel is based on the blend ratio of 20%, the lower the blend level the less you lose and the less water accumulation and particle accumulation you will have in the system which is better...... just manage it and know less is better if you can get it. The only change to make beyond that is consider fuel filter changes sooner then you might change them without bio-blended fuel especially if running B20 consistently. How often is really up in the air...as Dave points out carrying spare filters just in case.

Dave,

Regarding 911, that product as I understand it is a rescue product for dissolving ice that is frozen on the filter face to get you going if you ran into an ice blocked filter problem or gelling. I think it must have methanol or some component that combines with water that will then end up going through your engines fuel injection system, which may not really be a good thing except in an emergency.

The idea of the primary filter is to trap all the water it can, that is both emulsified or separated in the fuel, and protect your fuel system by trapping it elsewhere. I think 911 basically would turn off your water filtration by converting water to another chemistry that the filter face will pass. Neither Cat nor Cummins endorse these fuel additives but for emergencies or algae growth they are necessary.

I'm not sure about using 911 preventatively, nothing really removes bio diesel from the fuel. It may make a filter last longer, but if it does that by releasing and sending more water through the engine fuel system, is that really a good thing? I think it is good question to ponder, I certainly do not have the answer...

Later Ed


Dave Atherton

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2016, 01:13:07 AM »
Ed, you are correct in one aspect. Understand that Bio Fuel thickens at filter same a fuel jelling,
What Product 911 is doing is allowing fuel to pass the fuel filter. This is why Early change with
fuel filter and carrying extra fuel filter on board is recommend. I do not plan on getting into debate
over subject because there is a ton of information both Pro and Con use of Bio Fuel, what I will
Tell you cummins , Caterpillar , Mercedes. Will not offer any brand of aftermarket additive  to
The problem other than cannot run bio fuel over 8 to 10%. You indicate 911 will not do any good
however yes it is doing very much good increased h.p and increased fuel milage basic back to
Before bio starting out of the window engine mfg spec's. Going last step cutting open fuel filter
That had restricted fuel flow as diesel fuel jelling on 90 DEG F and pretty much can come to your own thoughts. Again Ed yes the 911 is for diesel fuel jelling and not passing through fuel filter and
Yes this is what Bio fuel does to diesel fuel filters. Caterillar made statement very clear change
fuel filter at eariler service periods. Very good subject and great input Ed but this 911 Is doing
The job that it is made for to cutting wax that prevents good fuel flow through and plan to keep
using. Finding fuel other than 5 to 20% is here to stay.Dave AthertonRetiredCat Mechanic
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George Harwell

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2016, 08:17:40 PM »
Dave, according to CUMMINS the oil change intervals may be adjusted as the oil can be diluted by biodiesel. Their research found that pure diesel left no residue in the combustion chamber where as biodiesel leaves a minute amount that can migrate to the oil pan. I was advised by CUMMINS years back to carry spare filters but was never advised of the oil dilution potential. Visited with my CUMMINS shop this morning and he printed off 55 pages of CUMMINS service bulletin 3379001 dated 28 August 2013 last updated 25 May 2016 titled Fuels For CUMMINS Engines. While another CUMMINS website did not include the ISC as B20 compliant this service bulletin clearly states on page 25 table 5 that the ISC CM554 is acceptable up to B20. I called CUMMINS customer service earlier today and was informed that my engine was not approved for biodiesel so I challenged that and she put me on hold to consult higher authority. Good news, they had an internal document that included the ISC as B20.Cummins recommends Stratapore media fuel filters. I have always used their Fleetguard filters so feel good there. It is harder to filter water from biodiesel than plain petroleum diesel so it makes sense to use the best filters available. Another caution is to avoid long term storage with biodiesel. One page advised no longer than 3 months and another 6 months so take your pick there. I normally park for the winter with a full tank 1 Dec and depart 1 Apr. and have never experienced a problem. Now back to the root cause of most problems brought up by Dave. It's WATER. You have to keep the water from getting beyond the filters. Thanks to Dave and Ed for their most valuable input.

Dave Atherton

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2016, 01:08:55 AM »
George, thanks for the come back.as I mention on my post there is a ton of information both
pro and con. I'm like you because Caterpillar has also 25 or more pages and main concern to
Keep the Bio fuel moving through fuel filter and to use injection fuel cleaner off and on. They
are talking also of use different micron secondary fuel to higher micron. Again there is a ton
of information any way you might like. At present I am using 911 and is working great with
Increased power and milage. With your cummins with the CAPS fuel injection your secondary
fuel filter is 10 micron and passing Bio Fuel through fuel filter has a big plus because Caterpillar
secondary is 2 micron and will start pulling restriction sooner than the service due date. Been
around extreme cold weather operations with Caterpillar Diesel engines and with today's fuel
Wax or Parafin fuel jelling up at 10 above zero with blend 50/50 number 1 & 2 and use of 911
Does it job keeping fuel flowing through fuel filter. It what each choice one makes ,what is right
The biggest concern is fuel starvation to injection system and that starts at secondary fuel
filter. Thanks again Dave

Edward Buker

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2016, 10:50:17 PM »
Part 1 Of The Bioblend Problem And Solutions:

Background:

I learned quite a bit about the bio blend diesel fundamental fuel problem yesterday, some of the background, and what is being done to accommodate the needs of bioblend filtration. I obtained this insight from Parker Racor filter media engineering who is the leader in this field. Their whole business is filtration in water, medical, food, industrial, marine, and over the road vehicles etc. They have research facilities worldwide and deal with worldwide fuel issues of which bioblend is just a segment. I was told that Cat is one of their best customers and that a lot of the yellow painted filters and Cat yellow boxes are built by Racor for Cat and shipped to them so that is a good thing for both those business partners.

The Problem:

The problem started with the introduction of low sulphur fuel. The sulphur offered lubricity and that sulphur removal process stripped some additional lubricating fuel components which was compensated for by adding surfactants. The surfactant package used added back lubricity. Surfactants in general act as detergents, wetting agents, emulsifiers, foaming agents, and dispersants or combinations of these properties.

Years after the sulphur was reduced the Bio Blends were introduced into the mix which by their nature adds more moisture into the fuel mix. The problem is that the surfactants involved tend to emulsify the water and by their chemical nature cling to the surface of the minute water droplets and keep them dispersed. In essence many more tiny droplets that do not settle out and disperse and can form a milky cloud in fuel if the fuel mix is agitated. In general the more bio in the blend the more water in the fuel.

The filter medias that worked well on water droplets from petroleum based diesels are less than 80% effective at best for emulsified water and lose capacity quickly as the fixed capacity media traps water. That happens because the water droplets being trapped are not large enough to combine, settle out, and drop into the bowl like in the old days with petroleum based diesel without the surfactants that were added. While you need the lubricating qualities of the surfactants, we would be better off without them from a water contamination viewpoint.

So that is the source of the problem, which is more water that is now harder to extract. What it means in real life is the media surface traps the water at some efficiency and as it does the capacity to absorb water is constantly consumed. The more water, the more filter absorbing capacity that is used, and it is variable depending on the water level in the fuel. As the water absorbing capacity of the filter is consumed the water that passes on toward the secondary filter is constantly increasing and that is designed primarily to block particulates so it will head to the fuel rail. So we may start with 80% removal efficiency but may be running with 20% efficiency right at the moment and we do not know it. All we can do is manage the bioblend level, try and not have bioblended fuel in the tank if you are storing the coach for a few months, and change the primary filter more religiously then you might have.

So what is still needed is a way to get the harmful water trapped and keep it out of the fuel rail. I will do another segment in the next day or two about filter media, hopefully getting us onto the same page regarding what is the best filter solution will be, and where we are with that at present.

If you have interest, this link is a good page, with an excellent video you can play, regarding filter media, the diesel fuel issue and what is involved.

http://www.racornews.com/single-post/2014/09/11/Racors-Aquabloc-Filtration-Media-Its-Complicated

Hope this helps.

Later Ed
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 10:56:03 PM by Edward Buker »

George Harwell

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2016, 02:11:46 AM »
Ed, again many thanks for your contributions to this forum. Your articles are well written and very informative as I didn't know much about biodiesel. Looking forward to your article on the filtration.
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George Harwell

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Re: Biodiesel blend
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2016, 02:48:37 PM »
Been reading a lot about fuel filtration and discovered CUMMINS has developed a new filter media known as NANONET that is much superior to the Stratapore media filters. These new filters capture 98.7 percent of particles as small as 4 microns. The Stratapore media filter I use, FS 19551 fuel/water separator, is rated at 10 microns. NANONET filters do not absorb water like the old cellulose media therefore have a longer lifespan. The bad news for me is there is not a NanoNet media filter yet available to replace my FS 19551. Worked with Southern Plains CUMMINS here in Oklahoma City and found several fuel filters with NanoNet media so they are becoming available mainly for the high pressure fuel systems used in the newer engines. I will have to continue using FS 19551 but have decided to move my change intervals to 5,000. I have to correct a statement I made earlier about CUMMINS position on additives. CUMMINS does recommend an Addative produced under the name FLEETGUARD CC 2588 in a 1 pint bottle that treats up to 50 gallons and can be purchased at your CUMMINS service centers. For the Cat engine operators Dave is the expert you can depend on.               

On a side note I have a friend with a newly purchased Mercedes Benz powered Motorhome that is limited to B5 and another with a 2015 John Deere tractor limited to B15. Do you have other diesel powered vehicles that may be affected?