Author Topic: Hydro Hot Quit  (Read 6838 times)

Jerry Emert

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Hydro Hot Quit
« on: May 05, 2017, 02:41:05 PM »
My HHE-500-03-07 quit in the middle of the night while being used to heat the coach. The green light is still on. No hot water and the unit is not running. The thermostats are working with the heat pumps. Haven't had a chance to crawl under the coach to look at the control board yet this morning. Any ideas?  Update, I got under the coach and checked the board, the emergency cutoff light is on indicating low fluid.  Hopefully an easy fix. but that brings up another question.  Can I mix red boiler fluid and green anti freeze?  I had changed to the red a couple years ago, at my last service "they" changed it back to green so, can I mix?

Second, less important question, I've noticed that when it was working, all the faucets had really hot water.  The shower, however, was barely luke warm.  Outdoor shower valves are both off.  We are in Northern Michigan in a 30 amp site and nights are in the 30s.  Thoughts appreciated!
Thank you
Jerry
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 03:14:23 PM by Jerry Emert »
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
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Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2017, 04:30:31 PM »
Jerry,
Do not mix the anti freeze. If it's got green in it, add more green. It's probably 50/50 ethylene glycol (e.g Prestone). I'd start by checking circulation and stir pump for operation when shower is on.
Steve
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 04:37:03 PM by Steve Huber Co-Admin »
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp
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Joe Rhea

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 08:26:57 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something, you do not use ethylene glycol in domestic water applications. All it would take is a small leak to contaminate the water side of the aqua-hot. Your literature plainly states FDA approved boiler based Propylene glycol  (which is food grade) be used. I would be concerned with the red verses green. All I have seen is red, perhaps someone else can clarify if the two colors are used.
   

Jerry Emert

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2017, 08:40:44 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something, you do not use ethylene glycol in domestic water applications. All it would take is a small leak to contaminate the water side of the aqua-hot. Your literature plainly states FDA approved boiler based Propylene glycol  (which is food grade) be used. I would be concerned with the red verses green. All I have seen is red, perhaps someone else can clarify if the two colors are used.
   
I think you are right.  They changed to the red in later years.  I changed mine a few years ago and the the genius tech changed it to the green at the last service.  I'll have it changed back to red sooner or later.  Maybe sooner if I have to have someone fix the mixing valve or pump because I have no clue where they are or what they look like.  I'm in upper Michigan away from home so no clue where to go either.  Thats me, no clue!
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Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2017, 10:05:10 PM »
Guys,
Many of the early models of Hydro/Aqua Hot came from the factory with ethylene glycol. If Jerry has ethylene glycol in his unit now and it is low, he's got 3 choices; top it off with more ethylene glycol, top it off with water (preferably distilled), or drain the unit and refill with boiler antifreeze (red stuff).
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Jerry Emert

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2017, 02:23:24 AM »
It was low on coolant, took about 1.5 gallons.  Surprised me because I checked it about a month ago and it was fine.  First I've had to put any in it for a year or so.  Hopefully not a leak somewhere.  I still have to figure out the cold shower or get it somewhere for that to happen.  Thanks for everyone's help.
Jerry
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
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Jerry Emert

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2017, 02:29:05 AM »
Does anyone know if Beaver put anti-scald valves in the showers?  Roger Berke says that some MH manufacturers put them in even though they are not needed.
Jerry
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
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Gerald Farris

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2017, 05:56:58 AM »
The recommended use of ethylene glycol (green stuff) or propylene glycol (red stuff) in an Aqua Hot depends on which Aqua Hot unit you have. The earlier design Aqua Hot units had double wall heat exchangers between the Aqua Hot fluid and any domestic water supply, so ethylene glycol is recommended in these units because it is efficient, more readily available, cost less, and cross contamination is almost impossible. However, the later design models do not have double wall heat exchangers, so propylene glycol is required in these units because cross contamination, although unlikely is a real possibility. So to determine which Aqua Hot fluid you need to use, check your owner's manual, the Aqua Hot website, or Rodger Berke's website.

Gerald     
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Jerry Emert

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2017, 02:30:05 PM »
Update...fixed!  The unit failed again in the middle of the night, Saturday morning.  Again low on coolant after adding 1.5 gallons on Friday.  I am parked on wet gravel and did not see any puddles under the coach.  I put more fluid in and turned it on, started right up and for first 10 minutes or so no leak.  Then I saw it starting to drip from one of the hoses on the side of the unit.  I removed all the insulation off and found a leak just below where the hose goes up through the floor.  It was going to the heat exchanger under the sink.  I cut it off and put a coupler and hose clamp on each end.  Worked all night and no leaks.  I guess I will need a aqua hot tech to figure out the cold shower issue.   No room to get in behind it for me.  Thanks
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
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Bill Sprague

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2017, 04:38:01 PM »
We had the same '04 Monteray for 12 years and, bit by bit, got to know the Hydro-Hot pretty well!  (Maybe it was drip by drip!)

Fluid:  The old ones used green (Prestone).  As Gerald wrote, it is a true waste of money using the red in the systems designed to use the green.   

Low Fluid:  There is a float switch.  The original in the HydroHots used in Montereys was made from "high quality" plastic.   A metal (brass?) replacement was made.  If you know it is full, you can "jumper" around the float switch and stay warm until a replacement is found. 

What to add:  At about year 10 we were having issues with getting consistent hot water.   We agreed to a full trouble shooting sequence from John Carrillo at a rally in Bend.  ( http://heatmyrv.com/ ).   One of the steps was to analyze the fluid.   It had too much Prestone and not enough water.  John explained that long term,  more water is lost to evaporation that fluid.  So even if you add a 50/50 mix, it will gradually end up being too strong.

Less than hot water in the shower (1):  Most shower valves, including the one in our Monterey have a mechanical setting inside that can stop the hot from being wide open.  It is not a "thermal valve".   It can be set to stop you from turning the hot water all the way up.  Perhaps well intended if you worry that people will be burned, but for me it was a PITA. 

Less than hot water in the shower (2):  The reason for the John Carrillo full troubleshooting procedure was to find out why we could not depend on consistent hot water in the shower.   In short, our version of the HydroHot had a "stir pump".   There is a quick way to "test" it.  The inlet hose has to be hot.  The outlet hose from the pump has to be equally hot.  It won't be if there is a complete failure of the little pump.  Three technicians prior to John were sure the pump was working because both hoses were hot to the touch.  One used a IR thermometer.  The pump had a weird magnetic drive from the motor to the impeller.  That means it can pump just enough to confuse anyone trying to measure the temperature of the inlet and outlet tubes.   With a weakened or tired magnetic drive, it will pump enough to heat the hoses but not stir the coolant.  John's approach was that you first "troubleshoot" everything else.  Then, if there is still inconsistent water temperature, you change the stir pump.   He put in one that was a lot beefier than the first two.  Our hot water became hot and consistent! 

Burner tubes:  They crack.  It must get hot in there!  Ours was replaced twice. 

Service techs:   In twelve years, the Hydro-Hot was the most failure prone system and the second most expensive.   No point in listing all the missed or wrong trouble shooting events, but the key to having it run safely and efficiently is a technician that knows what they are doing.   They are had to find.   
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Dan Murphy

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2017, 05:05:57 PM »
Hey Bill

John Carrillo checked out our Aqua-hot in our Contessa at that same Bend Ale Trail rally. We were in good shape and he put a sticker on our unit with his name and phone number on it.He also told me that the way I had explained our use of our unit and the way I exercised it regularly that I might consider servicing it every other year.

The next year when I was having the coach detailed in Florida I noticed that the man doing the job was also advertising himself as an Aqua-hot service tech so I asked him to service the unit while he was there because John Carrillo had told me probably a good idea to get it looked at "in another year or so".

When this guy saw the sticker with John's name on it he came to me and asked me if John Carrillo was my usual Aqua-hot guy and did I really know him. I said yes I knew John and I would have called him for service but John was way out west and no where close to Florida.

He said he had been following John on some sort of blog or forum and he thought John was the greatest Aqua-hot tech in the business!! I kind of felt like I was going to get a very complete service call from this guy and I did. He was very good and honest.I feel like our Aqua-hot is in good hands down in Florida.

 
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Roland DuBree

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2017, 01:08:04 AM »
Hey Dan Murpgy, who was the service tech in Florida and where was he?

Jerry Emert

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 01:13:55 AM »
Hey Dan Murpgy, who was the service tech in Florida and where was he?
Yes, who? and where?
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
4000MH

Bill Sprague

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2017, 03:43:38 PM »
Hey Bill

John Carrillo checked out our Aqua-hot in our Contessa at that same Bend Ale Trail rally. We were in good shape and he put a sticker on our unit with his name and phone number on it.He also told me that the way I had explained our use of our unit and the way I exercised it regularly that I might consider servicing it every other year.......
Dan,

With help from Marty Schenck, I got to the point that I could change the filter, change the nozzle, clean the burner tube and check the electrodes myself if it acted up.  I adopted the attitude that if it was running well, to not disturb it. 

Apparently nozzles can last from weeks to years.  Filters depend on the fuel you get.  Other than that, I wouldn't get a " complete service" unless I was where there was an exceptional expert nearby that had the unique experience and tools to do more than I could.     

Dan Murphy

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Re: Hydro Hot Quit
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2017, 04:14:05 PM »
Here is the info I have on the Aqua-hot Tech in East Central Florida. He operates a mobile detailing service out of Titusville Fl.

Scrubs Mobile Auto Spa----website: www.scrubsmobiledetailing.com
                                       phone ---321-806-8875

His name is Chuck Brokhoff and he is one of the very best detail men I have ever seen work although he has gotten so busy he has hired help now.

Before he had this extra help anybody in our community who wanted his service was scheduling for the next year well in advance.


He is also a factory trained technician by Aqua-hot and conscientious about his work.
 
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