Author Topic: Rocore Transmission Cooler Failures C12/Allison 4000  (Read 3791 times)

Edward Buker

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Rocore Transmission Cooler Failures C12/Allison 4000
« on: June 01, 2017, 06:03:17 PM »
Recalling The Problem...

For those of you that have been on the forum for awhile, you may recall that a fair amount of research and discussion took place with the folks at Rocore. This was prompted by the failure of Tim Bentley's transmission cooler failure at 140K miles, which caused his transmission to self destruct due to anti freeze contamination of the transmission fluid. It cost Tim $10,000 to replace his cooler and transmission. This follow on effort was to see when we might want to change this cooler out preventatively before it failed (seemed a 100k miles was prudent) and to seek out and encourage an offering of a better cooler design.

You may also recall that there were two designs of Rocore Transmission Coolers, one being a fixed bundle design like in the current 3-1249T that Beaver used. This design has a weakness due to stress from heat cycles that eventually causes cracking of a tube in the bundle or a solder joint. There was also a floating bundle design that eliminated the stress by accommodating the expansion, allowing the cooling bundle to expand and contract (float) using Oring seals against a machined housing. The Viton O rings seals by design is only exposed to transmission fluid, if there ever was any O ring fail, the design does not put antifreeze on one side of the seal and transmission fluid on the other. It is a very robust design that evolved to eliminate cooler failures. The problem was that a 3-1249T replacement did not exist.

The 3-1249T New Replacement Floating Bundle Design 5-7063F:

In the drawing I attached of the new 5-7063F you can see the detail A that shows the floating seal design, 3 is the oring, 4 is a retaining clip, in the overall drawing 5 is a dust seal cap covering and protecting all of the seal area. This is a far superior design that has virtually eliminated any failures based on Rocore testing and about 10 years of field experience on other PNs.

As part of evolving a floating bundle design replacement, I had Dave Wheatley run the cooling model for the 1249T vs the 5-7063F design. He used a C13 525HP and a 4000 Allison given the C12 data was not readily available online from Cat any more regarding coolant flow. All things being equal the new cooler design should cool about 4% better than the current design and passed the critical temperature limits set by Allison for the 525HP C13. Dave was later able to get coolant flow information for the C12 from a Cat distributor and confirm that the calculations are also acceptable for this configuration. The new design gets its slight cooling improvement from a tighter bundle design and a longer tube length for heat transfer.

Design Differences To Consider


-Both units have #16 oil ports, 3-1249T CL to CL spaced 12 inches apart, 5-7063F 14.5 inches

-Length of 3-1249T 19.6 inches, 5-7063F 20 inches

-Diameter of 3-1249T is 5 inches, 5-7063F 4 5/8th inches. Dave suggested using mud flap rubber as a spacer and isolator or ordering new clamps. If existing mounting brackets are not useable, U-bolt clamp brackets can be sourced from  Clamps, Inc  PN U-450, or McMaster-Carr PN 3042T39.

-The cast end caps on the 5-7063F with the 3 inch cast ports have a narrower clamp space and may or may not need a narrower clamp then the 3-1249T

Availability And Price

The current price of the 3-1249T is $807. I am pleased to inform you that the new design comes in at $759. The lead time is 4-5weeks on the first unit which drives the 3 inch cast end cap order. One to two weeks lead time for follow on orders. You can call Rhonda at  800-645-2665, ext 1027 to place an order with Rocore or make a call to a truck parts supplier and make them aware of this new PN Rocore cooler.

This has been a long and winding road to get here, but it is done. I would like to personally thank Dave Wheatley at Rocore Engineering for working with me to make this happen.

This is one item, in my humble opinion, that you should consider changing out preventatively given the age of the current units and the significant cost and inconvenience of an on the road failure. I personally would not consider buying another 3-1249T, it is an inferior design with known failure issues, it is not as efficient at cooling, and it cost more :-) Hope this helps.

Later Ed

« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 06:17:36 PM by Edward Buker »

Bill Lampkin

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Re: Rocore Transmission Cooler Failures C12/Allison 4000
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2017, 06:43:24 PM »
Ed, Excellent write up and thanks for all your hard work. We bought our 2005 Patriot Thunder in 2015, so I'm not exactly an old-timer around these parts....Can you tell me if my 2005 uses the suspect cooler? Or was the cooler updated with the 2005 C13/Allison 4000 model year?. We only have 44k on the MH, so we're a long way off from the 100k replacement. Would like to know anyway.
Thanks!
2005 Patriot Thunder Lexington, 3 slides
40' tag axle (short wheelbase)
525 hp C13

"Goin where the weather suits my clothes..."

Edward Buker

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Re: Rocore Transmission Cooler Failures C12/Allison 4000
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 07:25:28 PM »
Bill,
 
I would think it is highly possible given the Roadmaster Chassis evolved out of the Magnum chassis and the C13 needed similar transmission cooling, but I do not know the unit that was used.

I do not have a photo of the cooler from my 2002 Marquis that I sold, but maybe someone will be kind enough to post one to add to this thread. The drawing of the 3-1249T should also be enough to identify the unit, if you have one, and Rocore put a plate with identification on the units if it is still legible.

The 100k mileage was a guess-timate from very limited fail data. Failure is also driven by age, the number of heat up cool down cycles, and extremes of temperature, and the original build quality of the specific cooler so it is impossible to predict when any specific cooler will fail. This is not to alarm anyone, I just needed to be sure that folks are informed and can make their own decisions.

Later Ed