Motorcycle lift

[Keith Cooper]

I have been thinking about having a Motorycle lift installed on our 2000 Beaver Patriot Thunder 425 next spring. I have pretty much decided that if we have it done we will have a Hydralift system installed as opposed to the Overbilt solution. The Hydralift mounting system appears to create fewer potential issues with metal fatigue and I like the idea of leaving the existing towing setup intact. Still have some checking to do to insure we don't exceed the weight capacity on the rear axle with a Hydralift and a 2007 Harley ultra classic that combination is very close to the stated tounge weight limitation on the coach.  By the way had the coach weighed and the result was as follows with a full fuel tank and fresh water tank:
LF =5,280 lbs, RF = 5,280 lbs, LR= 11,100 lbs, RR=9,160 lbs
My question is for anyone who has a similar configuration (either Hydralift or Overbilt). What impact on steering and handling have you experienced when you have a large touring bike  on the lift?  With the combined weight of the lift and the bike at approximately 1,000 pounds sitting several feet behind the rear axle and above the tow bar I am a little concerned. Have you added weight to the front end to help compensate for the increased load on the rear?
Thanks
Keith & Eileen Cooper

[Bob McCORMACK]

If you haven't already done the calculations, follow this link to the Blue OX weight calculator.

http://www.blueox.us/Carriers/carriers.htm

The leverage of the weight that far behind the rear axle is significant.  I looked at all the carriers and decided I didn't want to put that much weight on the axle there by loosing that much weight in carrying capacity.  I also observed the amount of flexing on the units I saw going down the road that had a heavy bike and didn't much like what I saw.

You might also look into the the Idaho Tote or swivel wheel type carriers.  I know some folks insist they are a trailer but I haven't found any users who ever had a problem with that.  They keep most of the weight off the rear axle of the MH. There is one model of  swivel wheel that can be folded up against the back of the MH when not in use.

http://www.idahotote.com/

Since I usually tow a Dakota PU I just made a lift to put the bike in the bed.  No extra weight on the MH. One of the advantages of having a fabrication shop.

Racer Bob

[Keith Cooper]

In looking at the Idaho Tote it is an interesting solution. However, we are looking to flat tow a VW new beetle (13') while hauling the Harley. The problem is a legal one in the state we reside in (Georgia) towing and towed vehicle can't exceed 60'. The second issue is the perception of the Idaho Tote. is it an extension to the coach, a tow dolly, or a trailer state laws treat each a little differently (http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm).
If it's an extension of the coach then motorhome length becomes an issue. the maximum is 45' in most states. If it is trated as a tow dolly or a trailer then the issue becomes triple towing which is not allowed in Georgia. I may be forced to either take the bike on a trailer when we plan to use it, or flat tow the car. If that is the situation I will look at other more economical trailer solutions.
FYI
The following are the questions I forwarded to Idaho Tote
I am interested in your Idaho Tote Dolly for use with our 2000 Beaver Patriot Thunder (40’ Motor home). However, I have several questions:
1.     Will your company be represented at the FMCA rally in Perry Ga. March 14th to March 17th ? I would like to see this in person.
2.     What is the load capacity of the rear receiver hitch? Is this a standard 2” receiver?
3.     If I purchase the Idaho Tote I still plan to flat tow a VW new Beetle convertible e/w a Blue Ox towing setup. I assume your electrical connection to the coach is configured to support standard 7 pin plug and jack interfaces?
4.     Do you provide a plug and jack configuration (6 or 7 pin) to attach to a towed vehicle?
5.     How and when are the brakes applied on the Idaho tote?
6.     Most US States have laws requiring Brakaway protection above specific weights (http://www.brakebuddy.com/Towing-Laws). How is this addressed between the Coach and the Idaho Tote?
7.     What is the total distance from the rear of the coach to the end of the rear receiver hitch? I happen to live in Ga. where the total length of the towing and towed vehicle must be under 60’ (http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm ) Since we are looking at attaching a VW behind the Idaho Tote (13’) this may present a problem.
8.     I am looking at the Idaho tote as a way to haul a 2007 Harley Davidson FLTHCU (840 LBS wet weight) what is the total cost for a configuration which will support my  specific situation?
 I will probably opt for the shorter dolly and mount the bike sideways. To keep the total length of the coach + tote+ towed vehicle  under 60’ (http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm )
9.     The Idaho Tote appears to use a rigid connection between the coach and the dolly. If that is so, how does the Idaho Tote deal with “freeway hop”?
10.     In looking at the bracket used to attach to the coach it appears to drop below the rear bumper and then come back up to the level of the trailer deck. That design would appear to be susceptible to metal fatigue over time. Do you offer a permanent bracket which attaches directly to the coach frame creating a straight line extension off the end of the coach frame to the Idaho Tote?
11.     How is the Idaho Tote classed in all states? Is it considered as a tow dolly, a trailer,  or an extension to the coach. I suspect that varies from state to state.

[Phil And Carol Upham]

We have a 2000 Patriot, 40', 2 slides.  I was going to have a lift installed, the Hydralift as I recall.  The welder/installer climbed under and came out stating he would not install it.  He felt it would not be safe.  Our Beaver is not the Thunder and is limited to 5000 lbs tow weight so we may be talking apples and oranges.  Just check it out.  It was a big disappointment for us.

[Keith Cooper]

Thank you for the feedback I am going to hold for awhile and do a little more research. After crawling under the rear of the chassis I am more concerned with significantly exceeding the load capacity on the rear axle (20,000 lbs). Although there is clearly an issue with  exceeding some other numbers. Hydralifts weigh in at about 415 lbs and the two brakets are approximately 65 lbs or the equivelent of  480 lbs of tongue weigh before the bike is ever loaded.In my case the wet weight of the bike is 840 lbs So the effective tongue weight would be 1,320 lbs. To make that work some changes to the rear suspension would be required and that is well beyond what i wanted to do at this point. Kind of kicking myself for not weighing the coach before we made the purchase.

 For any who are interested here is the response from Idaho tote:
Good Morning Mr. Cooper:

 Foremost; thank you for having a look at the Tote Dollyl

1.  We will not be in Perry GA. this year. We have choosen several other shows. I do not know where you live. We do have a couple if  Florida.

2.  The rear receiver hitch capacity is relative to the weight carried on the Tote Dolly. If the Tote is loaded to capacity, which is 2000 lbs. net. The capacity of the hitch is 300 lbs.

3. Flat towing is just fine. Example we have folks towing full sized 4 door pick ups behind the Idaho Tote.

7 position plug; Yes. Blade type. I am assured that your Blue Ox towing system is a good one.

Yes; 2" reciever.

6.  Break away between your coach and the Tote. The Idaho Tote Dolly is attached to the primary vehicle and not drawn as a trailer. The two are bolted together thus becoming one unit. The Tote cannot sway or become detached which I am certain that you understand. It has been stated to us that the Tote is a trailer.

Mr. Cooper, the Idaho Tote is not trying to pull the wool over any legal issue. We sincerely believe that our Tote Dolly "is" an attachment with a tag axle which steers.

7. Overall length. I believe that we can accomodate you. We have built a couple with 5 ft. decks. thus bringing the overall length of the Tote to 6' 1". This measurment is from the rear of the Tote to the center of the mounting holes in the 4" frame rails which protrude out the front of the tote. The attachment can also be manipulated some to remove an inch or two. I am not sure of the receiver stick out in the back. I believe it is 4 inches. This can also be modified as we construct our own hitch.

9 & 10.  The attachment which is used on a motorcoach is quite different. We use your existing hitch if it is tough enough. If not we will make it so. The attachment starts with a 2" stinger which plugs into your hitch. Then crossing the rear of the motorcoach is a 4"x2" rect. tube. From underneath the coach we now brace the corners of this tube to the structural steel of your coach. The Tote can pivot up and down on the 2 -3/4" x 4 grade 5 cap screws which attach the Tote to the coach. We use no pins. Everything is bolted together. The Idaho Tote is equipped with hydraulic shocks. Naturally helps with the ride. You are right. all steel suffers fatigue. Our attachments are extremely over built. The normal attachment is platformed on a 4"x4"x3/8" angle which travels from frame rail to frame rail.

11.  State by State towing laws. Interpreting them for us is hard. Allow me to tell you what I do know. In my understanding, in most States the Idaho Tote Dolly is not addressed. Regulations pertaining to trailers speak to and address how they are "DRAWN" . Again the Tote Is attached.

We are 4 years and counting with around 120 units accross the US and Canada. To date; No issues. Several have been inspected and no citations. This includes myself as I have used my Tote for several years and have been inspected twice. Much is in our knowledge of the facts. Being able to explain that the Dolly is attached and not drawn thus making it part of our primary vehicle.

  

[Tim Bentley Co-Admin]

Some time in 2003 when Monaco took over building Beaver coaches they switched from a 5000 lb hitch capacity to 10000 lb.  A tag axle was added at that time.  The pre tag Beavers are close to their weight limit on both axle and tires.  I agree with Phil, and would be very careful about adding weight to the rear end of a pre 03 coach.  

[JimCasazze]

Keith, I will let you know on this very soon.  Our Patriot Thunder is at the welder's as I write.  They are installing an Overbilt lift (less weight and no hydraulics to worry about).  We plan to carry a RoadKing with us to Moultrie, GA in a few weeks.  Hopefully this combination will work fine.  If not, I guess the bike will have to stay at home.

I am aware of the loading issues discussed on this (and other forums).  However, I have yet to find someone that has reported any problems so far.  I personally do not want to be the 1st.....

Anyway, I've seen quite a few RV here in FL with various lifts installed.   I like the simplicity and construction of the overbilt lift despite it's lighter overall weight.  I also like the ability to easily remove (by myself) and store the lift if I'm not using it.

Jim