Author Topic: Battery question with long prelude ( I apologize in advance)  (Read 4192 times)

Jeff Ramey

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Battery question with long prelude ( I apologize in advance)
« on: August 30, 2017, 09:52:17 PM »
OK, Having started at the most recent posts in the Tech support area of the Forum, and so far have read every post back to page 43 or so  regardless of whether it applied to my coach or not, I'm feeling significantly more confident in my systems knowledge. At least for a guy that has only owned his coach for a couple of months. I now feel I am at least knowledgeable enough to ask the right questions, and be fairly dangerous.

When I purchased the 2000 Beaver PT with the C-12, the young man that sold it to me didn't have a wealth of knowledge about the coach to share. Although an extremely nice person and I believe he was honest and sincere with me, most of the questions I had were answered with "um, I'm not sure" or " I don't know."  He confided to me that the most he could tell me about the instrumentation and switches amounted to "that's the jake brake, and that's the cruise." Beyond these two things he offered that he "learned to never get in a hurry." while driving the coach.  He never used the LP for fear of starting a fire, and always turned the House and Chassis battery disconnect switches to the "off" position when he put the coach away. He said the batteries would drain fairly quickly if he didn't.

On attempting to start the coach after a 2 week period of unattended/ unplugged/ and covered storage, I have experienced "dead" chassis batteries twice now, regardless of the position of the battery disconnect switches. I have discovered through reading posts and personal experimentation, that there are slow parasitic drains on the battery that happen regardless of the position of the disconnect switches, and that the gen set is started off the Chassis batteries (not the way I would have set it up) so that when the chassis batteries are dead, you aren't going to be able to start the generator to charge them. (exactly why I wouldn't have set it up that way.)  Additionally, it appears that the generator prioritizes the house batteries over the chassis in the charging sequence. Also, a poor choice in my opinion. I would rather ensure that I could start the coach at all times and possibly use the alternator to charge the house batteries enough to start the generator (assuming the solar panels didn't already keep the house batteries at a sufficient charge state to do so).

While I was working in the coach over a period of a few days, I had it uncovered and the solar panels exposed to strong direct sunlight for at least 8 hours at a time. I also ran the generator for several hours at a time in order to run  both A/Cs and keep the coach interior cool. At the end of the day, I made sure I disconnected the batteries. This worked fine until we had a few cloudy days in a row. One morning I was greeted with a chassis battery that wouldn't crank the engine, but did have enough juice to run the generator. I remembered reading about the boiling batteries issues some were experiencing, and checked mine. The chassis batteries are maintenance free, but the house batteries are not and upon inspection, were so low on water that the top 1/16" of the plates were exposed. I filled all 4 batteries with distilled water to a height just covering the tops of the plates in each cell by about 1/4".  Then, I ran the generator all day (8+hours non-stop) and at the end of which, the Link 2000 showed both house and chassis batteries to have a full charge, 13.95 volts, and 13.10 respectively.  I read in the Link manual that the batteries should be equalized once every 30 days, and since mine were showing a full charge now, I followed the procedure outlined in the manual and let them equalize for 5 hours.

NOW... both batteries show P100 for percentage of charge, the house batteries show 13.95 vdc BUT, the chassis batteries will NOT charge while the generator is running, and I can watch the voltage slowly drain from a high of 12.10 to an eventual 9.5.

The chassis batteries will show 12.10 vdc after charging for hours but the minute I try to crank the engine they drain very quickly down to about 9.5 vdc and will not start the coach.

Are my Chassis batteries fried, and is it as a result of something I did, or didn't do correctly?
If  I have to replace the chassis batteries, which size and brand should I be looking for?

If you made it this far in my post, THANK YOU! You are a real dedicated trooper!
 

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Battery question with long prelude ( I apologize in advance)
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2017, 04:25:41 AM »
Jeff,
Sounds like your chassis batteries are questionable. Suggest you have them checked. Also check the operation of your BIRD system.
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Gerald Farris

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Re: Battery question with long prelude ( I apologize in advance)
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2017, 06:06:59 AM »
Jeff and Steve,
The 2000 Thunder does not have a "Bird" system. However, it did come with an Echo Charger that apparently is not charging the chassis batteries properly or the chassis batteries need replacement. Completely discharging your chassis batteries will shorten their life drastically, so you should be careful to prevent that from happening. If the coach is stored under cover without power, you have to disconnect the negative chassis battery cable to prevent the ECM (engine control module) from discharging the chassis batteries.

The Echo Charger will only charge your chassis batteries at 15 amps or less, but if the generator was running for 8 hours and the inverter was charging the house batteries (the only time that the Echo Charger will charge the chassis batteries), your chassis batteries should be charged enough to crank the engine.

Your coach is wired properly as far as how the generator starts and how the inverter charges the batteries. If it was wired the way you said you would prefer, you would not be able to use the coach to dry camp and using the engine alternator to charge your discharged house batteries will cause repeated failures.

If you would like me to walk you through checking the Echo Charger system and explaining how and why the coach is wired the way that it is, just call me at 713-254-4156. I will be in the Eastern Time Zone for the next month.

Gerald

Jeff Ramey

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Re: Battery question with long prelude ( I apologize in advance)
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2017, 10:23:25 PM »
Thank you Gerald, I will gladly take advantage of your generous offer. I'm leaning ever more toward the conclusion my chassis batteries have been severely damaged, and are in need of replacement. As near as can be determined through conversations with the previous owner, both chassis batteries are at least or approx. a year old and have been severely discharged at least 3 times that I am aware of. Taking into consideration they are "Alliance Truck Parts" starting batteries with an adequate 950 CCA rating, but that appear to be a less expensive battery option to begin with, I think the neglect may have been too much for them. I also discovered a MAGNUM brand Smart battery combiner afixed to the battery compartment bulkhead. After downloading and studying the manual, I understand this is a controller that regulates the battery charging sequence/threseholds for the chassis. I adjusted the values for connection, as well as, the low and high disconnect voltages in the hope it would be more appropriate for the current state of my batteries. I don't think equalizing them in their current weakened condition was a good idea, and may have finished them off during the high voltage/overcharging phase.

Gerald Farris

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Re: Battery question with long prelude ( I apologize in advance)
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2017, 12:35:59 AM »
Jeff,
The  MAGNUM Smart battery combiner is a replacement for the failure prone Echo Charger that your coach was originally equipped with.

Gerald

Frank Bergamo

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Re: Battery question with long prelude ( I apologize in advance)
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2017, 06:07:31 PM »
Gerald, I have the original Xantrex inverter still operational in my Marquis. My question is, will the Magnum Smart Battery Combiner work with this inverter or do I need the Magnum inverter to be compatible. My Echo charger is dead and need to decide witch way to go. Also, any modifications to make it all work? Thanks, Frank.
Frank & Paulette Bergamo
2019-       : 2007 Marquis Topaz IV  C-15 600 HP Allison 4000
2014-2019: 2002 Marquis Emerald C-12 505 HP Allison 4000
2004-2014: 1986 Executive Diplomat 3208 250 HP Allison MT-643
Grand Junction, CO.

Gerald Farris

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Re: Battery question with long prelude ( I apologize in advance)
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 07:21:12 PM »
Frank,
The Magnum Smart Battery Combiner will work with any brand inverter/converter because it only uses system voltage to control when it charges the chassis batteries in the same manner that your Echo Charger did before it failed. Therefore, the Magnum Smart Battery Combiner and the Echo Charger are direct replacements for each other with no other modifications required in the replacement.

Gerald   

Frank Bergamo

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Re: Battery question with long prelude ( I apologize in advance)
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 03:14:29 AM »
Thank you, Gerald. Looks like the Magnum battery combiner is the way to go. From what I have read on the forum the Echo charger is prone to failure when washing out the battery compartment. Hopefully the Magnum is more waterproof than the Echo. Maybe a new location would solve the water issue. Thanks again for your input, Frank.
Frank & Paulette Bergamo
2019-       : 2007 Marquis Topaz IV  C-15 600 HP Allison 4000
2014-2019: 2002 Marquis Emerald C-12 505 HP Allison 4000
2004-2014: 1986 Executive Diplomat 3208 250 HP Allison MT-643
Grand Junction, CO.

Gerald Farris

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Re: Battery question with long prelude ( I apologize in advance)
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2017, 03:02:35 PM »
Frank,
The Magnum Smart Battery Combiner and the Echo Charger will both fail if you spray water on them. Your only choice is to stop spraying water into their location, relocate the unit, or buy a lot of new units if you spray water into the mounting location.

Gerald