Leveler Hydraulics Affecting Main Slide?

[D. Wendal Attig]

Upon arriving back at our 2002 Beaver Monticello last week, I noticed a small puddle of fluid under the driver's side. After further inspection, it turned out to be hydraulic fluid which was coming from what appeared to be the driver's front leveler jack which was just an inch or so off of the front axle.  While we don't typically use the jacks because of problems with the SMC control, I decided to try manual retracting to see if I could get them "all-up" .

Upon doing that, I stepped outside to inspect again and was greeted with what appeared to be more than a gallon of hydraulic fluid, on the the ground, and beneath both front jacks. I could not get under far enough to determine if the hoses were broken, but my guess is that the actuators were leaking since it was on both sides. Apparently the manual retract attempt pressurized the system, pumping all of this fluid on the ground (pavement) --enough fluid to require about 90% of a 40 lb bag of oil dry to absorb.

Our main slide has worked flawlessly since we purchased the coach......until after this spill. Now we hear the pump responding to activating the in/out switch, but the slide does not move. the Beaver manual talks about a common connection between the SMC leveling system and the hydraulic assisted slide, but falls short when it comes to troubleshooting suggestions. (incidentally, we have never experienced any leaks when operating the slide) The manual does mention there might be a fuse located in the switch, but since we hear the pump, I'm guessing a blown fuse is unlikely.

So, I would like to replace the lost hydraulic fluid in order to activate the slide again, but suspect there may be a reservoir other than the one in the service panel (which is not low). If so, there is no reference to this in the Beaver owner's manual.

Your experiences and advice are appreciated.
Thanks,
D.

[Jerry Emert]

I have the SMC system also.  The problem is that the systems seem to change with no rhyme or reason.  Some have the reservoir under/behind the front step.  Others, like mine, are located just behind the battery compartment in the rear passenger side.  The reservoir would have to be filled to operate the slide.  About the leaks I have no clue.  My owners manual does have a diagram of the chassis parts that shows the location of the reservoir.  I hope this helps.
Jerry

[Gerald Farris]

D,
The hydraulic reservoir in your service bay is for the engine driven hydraulic pump that runs your radiator fan and the power steering system. The electrically driven hydraulic pump for your leveling jacks and slide should be located behind your battery compartment where Jerry said. On most coaches, it is a dirty and difficult job to properly fill that reservoir.

You need to determine where the hydraulic leak is for your front jacks and either repair it or seal the jacks in the retracted position and plug the hoses at the solenoid valve. The front jacks on your coach use hydraulic pressure to retract them and to keep them retracted. If you have a broken hose or bad seal that vents the system to the atmosphere, the jacks can extend again from gravity until they touch the axle.

Gerald   

[Jerry Emert]

Wendal, if you happen across the valve/solenoids that operate the slides please let me know where they are.  My driver's slide creeps out when driving.  I've found the valve body for the levelers but not the slides.  They may be one and the same but I just don't know.  I have a hydraulic leak above one of the rear axles.  We got home at the end of October.  I drove the last 1500 miles or so with the slide blocked so it wouldn't come out.  I've been ignoring it since but I need to get it fixed after Christmas.  Thanks.
Jerry

[D. Wendal Attig]

Jerry, It looks like I'm on a scavenger hunt to find the reservoir. My coach has the mid side entrance with electric stairs that extend and retract, so nothing but air under the steps. I too seem to have the front driver's side jack gravity extend over time. I am hesitant to get too far under the coach without jacking it up. Will the bottle jacks they sell at Harbor Freight work to do that (given the appropriate rating? and what would that be?) Best jack points?

I have noticed that the jack actuators seem to simply be bolted to the frame, without apparent weight bearing unless extended to the axle, so might be easily removed. My understanding is that the system is not pressurized unless the pump is operating, but I have a suspicion that check valves would maintain pressure in the actuator if required to hold them in the retracted position.  Don't want to disconnect and get dowsed at 3,000 PSI. If a hose has failed, might that already be relieved?

The manual leads me to believe that  both the levelers and the slide share the same system, but the valve for the slide is probably separate coming from the pump, since we have only had the leak when operating the SMC panel, not the slide.

Guess I'll start with looking for the reservoir behind the battery roll-out tray. Any chance I could reach it through the floor hatch in the bedroom?

[Karl Welhart]

The leveling jack leak is related to your slide problem.  Gerald is correct, the reservoir is located in the rear PS behind the service bay door.  Filling the reservoir is not easy and make sure you have all jacks and slides retracted fully before adding fluid.  The BAD news, until you fix the leak, this will happen again.  No good way to fix the leaks in the jacks.  Replacement is possible with Big Foot cylinders.  This does require some modifications to the mounting locations and landing pads.  I believe someone has successfully repaired these cylinders, but not sure where or how much it would cost.

Good luck,

[D. Wendal Attig]

Gerald,

If the jacks are no longer under pressure, what keeps them from "floating" in concert with the coach suspension instead of fighting with it?  Could they be manually retracted using a crow-bar to get them off the front axle? When you mention sealing them off, how could that be done. In most hydraulic applications I have seen, the line runs as a metal tube from the pump to a solendoid close to the appliance, where the rubber hose  (typically short) handles the flexible connection to the actuator. Is this likely to be the case here?

D.

[Jerry Emert]

Gerald,

If the jacks are no longer under pressure, what keeps them from "floating" in concert with the coach suspension instead of fighting with it?  Could they be manually retracted using a crow-bar to get them off the front axle? When you mention sealing them off, how could that be done. In most hydraulic applications I have seen, the line runs as a metal tube from the pump to a solendoid close to the appliance, where the rubber hose  (typically short) handles the flexible connection to the actuator. Is this likely to be the case here?

D.

I mine I can see the reservoir when I open the battery compartment and the one just to the rear of it.  It is mounted against the plastic wall of the battery compartment.  It is a cylinder about 24 inches or so high.  The fill cap faces the rear of the coach.  When I filled mine I used one of the hand pumps that they sell for oil changes.  When an RV dealer did it (long story) he used a long funnel and went in from the engine access door.  The valve body is rear of the reservoir and inboard a little.  It has extend and retract valves.  I believe but am not sure that when you extend or retract it pumps fluid in or out to hold the levelers or slide where you want it.  I put pics up in October when my problem with the slide originally occurred.   The levelers seem relatively straight forward but no one here seems to know how the slides are integrated into the pump.  Ken Carpenter and his techs don't seem to know either.  Good luck with your issue.
Jerry 

[Jerry Emert]

Wendal here is the link to the thread that I started with pics of the reservoir.
http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,7157.msg50747.html#msg50747

[D. Wendal Attig]

Update: No reservoir in the battery compartment. Since my engine compartment is not accessible from the rear (full width radiator) I cannot get a view from there. I'm going to pass my phone/camera on a selfie stick under the coach tomorrow and see if the pix reveal anything. Will also look under the bedroom floor access panel then. Is there anyone I should call who might be familiar with the Monticello configuration? My owner's manual doesn't show a component layout.

Thanks,
D.

[Karl Welhart]

You will need to crawl under your coach below rearmost bay door on the PS.  Just behind the other hydraulic reservoir you will see the air dryer canister. Then on the other side of that will be the hydraulic fluid reservoir for the levelers and slide.  This reservoir is about 10-12" wide and maybe 18" tall with hoses coming in and out.  The fill cap is on the top (very hard to get to because of the other stuff in the way).  I used a hand pump and plastic hose to fill with transmission fluid (Mercon III).  Hope this helps.  I also sent you a private message...

[D. Wendal Attig]

Hi Karl,
Thanks for the directions. I'll have a chance to check it out later today and let you know what I find. The P/M didn't make it to my message inbox here on the forum. Please try again.
Oh, and when you refer to PS, what does that mean?   
Thanks,
D.

[Jerry Emert]

Hi Karl,
Thanks for the directions. I'll have a chance to check it out later today and let you know what I find. The P/M didn't make it to my message inbox here on the forum. Please try again.
Oh, and when you refer to PS, what does that mean?   
Thanks,
D.

Wendal, to most of these fine folks PS means passenger side.  To me, being an old Sailor, it would mean "Port Side" which would probably make me nuts looking for it on the wrong side!  Good luck.
Jerry

[Gerald Farris]

D.,
No the jack will not just float with the suspension without causing damage. There is too much resistance to movement in the jack.

I use 20 ton bottle jacks (I travel with two) with the needed wooden blocking for them to reach the frame as safety stands, and yes a Harbor Freight jack will work. A word of caution, you want to support the coach frame to keep it off of you and not the suspension. Since you have to get under the coach to place the jack in the correct position, some owners use a jack under the receiver on the rear of the coach as a safety stand at least until they place other jacks as needed.

At least one hose at each jack should remain pressurized at all times to hold it in the desired position. So there will be pressure in some of the hoses when you loosen them unless they have a bad leak, but venting a table spoon or two of oil as you loosen it will relieve that pressure.

The next thing that you need to do is get someone under the coach to fill the reservoir and locate the leaks. Until that happens, there is no amount of advise that I can give you that will correct your problem.

If you are apprehensive about working on the leveling system, or if you have physical limitations that make it unsafe for you, by all means have it repaired by a qualified professional. Spending at few dollars on a repair is much better that a visit to the hospital or worse.

Gerald

[D. Wendal Attig]

Thanks guys for hanging in here with this. It's a long thread, but I'm still grappling with a couple of critical issues.

Karl, you were spot on with helping me locate the reservoir. The reservoir in this configuration is actually easy to get to. The valves are located above, and the pump with solenoid is above that. There are no leaks from any of those components. The filler is on the side of the top of the reservoir and was easy to reach, is plastic, and unscrews easily. Upon unscrewing it, there was no evidence of fluid, which leads me to believe the reservoir is not under pressure at any time. 

I purchased some hydraulic fluid from the local auto parts store---just a gallon. Since there is no room for pouring even from a quart bottle, I purchased a cheap plastic pump that fit the gallon jug and had enough tubing to insert into the filler opening on the reservoir. I started pumping. When I paused for a moment, it occurred to me that the fluid I was pumping was clear, not red like that which had leaked significantly as I first mentioned in the original post.

I stopped pumping, and the next day went back to the vendor, who assured (as did the labeling) me that he has heard this before, but the Carquest hydraulic fluid is standard, but not colored like usual, since the red is simply a dye to help locate system leaks.

In the meantime, I went back to the Beaver Owner's Manual, and discovered that the Hydraulic System, calls for " Dextron II or Dextron III transmission fluid"   OOPs?

Maybe this is a dumb question, but are hydraulic and transmission fluid the same?

At this point, I decided to drain the reservoir. Guess what? The drain plug requires a hex socket just larger than 1/2" across. Don't have one, and couldn't find one in this part of the country., so I found a hex bolt head that fit the opening along with serious vise grips, shot the plug with PB Blaster, and finally removed it. Note, they used the red heavy threadlock when this plug was originally installed.

With this in mind, I drained the reservoir overnight. All fluid was red. The drain plug is about an inch up from the bottom, so I am not sure that it is totally empty or if I need to use a vacuum pump to ensure it's all out before filling the reservoir with transmission fluid ?

My wife's going stir crazy without the main slide out.

Advice please.

Thanks,
D. Wendal