Upgraded WiFi Connections

[Jeff Watt]

Jim,

Do you have the Bullet/antennae in your rig or is the Linksys the only unit? Do you have an external antennae (I suspect not as you mention that you don't want to put another hole in the coach envelope). So if I put a Bullet with a directional antennae (like Ed has) up front, then if I find I need more range, then I could also put another Bullet in the bedroom to link off of the front unit. We haven't really been using any wifi devices in the rear of the MH, so wifi access there wasn't my concern rather I was trying to find if the Bullet & Airport were in the rear, then would the signal reach the front?  

I guess fishing ethernet cable from the POE to the Airport Express so it is mid-coach is possible. The Airport is powered so I would only need the 12 or 15v POE, correct?

Thanks

Jeff

(Not a computer/electronic geek)

[Sean Donohue]

You have my attention on this, glad you posted it. I will be looking at these systems this week and likely will be installing this after we return from our trip next week.

[Jeff Watt]

Jim,

Sorry, re-read an earlier post of yours where I see you have the BULLET2 in your MH.

I checked L.Com and the BULLET2 is $39US  and the BULLET M2HP is $79US

At http://www.ubnt.ca/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=84&category_id=37&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

the BULLET M2HP is $76CDN and the BULLET2 is $41.99CDN

However their prices for antennae are pretty dear.... so I'm looking at another source. This one states it ships from Ontario: I haven't checked what final price will be with shipping etc.

http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-270/Antenna-Marine-Waterproof-Stainless-dsh-Steel/Detail.bok#

not strait forward.

Also, I am not sure what antenna to get, i.e. dBi

[JimDyer]

Jim,

Do you have the Bullet/antennae in your rig or is the Linksys the only unit? Do you have an external antennae (I suspect not as you mention that you don't want to put another hole in the coach envelope). So if I put a Bullet with a directional antennae (like Ed has) up front, then if I find I need more range, then I could also put another Bullet in the bedroom to link off of the front unit. We haven't really been using any wifi devices in the rear of the MH, so wifi access there wasn't my concern rather I was trying to find if the Bullet & Airport were in the rear, then would the signal reach the front?  

I guess fishing ethernet cable from the POE to the Airport Express so it is mid-coach is possible. The Airport is powered so I would only need the 12 or 15v POE, correct?

Thanks

Jeff

(Not a computer/electronic geek)

Sorry I confused you, Jeffrey. We have a BulletM2 mounted in the first curbside overhead cabinet (counting from the front) on a plastic turntable (lazy susan??) mounted to the roof of the cabinet. It has an antenna very similar to the one Ed has in the pictures above. I have it configured to automatically link to any open wifi it sees. The lights are visible, so that I can turn it until I see a red light which is a good signal.  The signal path is through the fibreglass wall just above the awning. I ran the power from the outlet on the underside of the cabinets (near the table) to a new 4 way 110v outlet in the first compartment. The power goes to the Bullet POE adapter, my Linksys router, and my Network Attached Storage, which are all located in that cabinet.

We have it wired via ethernet cable to the Linksys which gets its internet signal from the Bullet, and distributes the signal wirelessly to our secure network in the coach or out on the patio. (2 laptops, a tablet, a wifi cellphone running Skpe, and a wireless printer.)

The point of my post was that I find this gives me acceptable signal levels in the lounge, bathroom, and out on the patio, although the cabinetwork (or maybe the fridge and washer and drier) does slow the signal so that browsing from the bedroom is slower than acceptable. Not that bath or bedroom are usual browsing sites - I just wanted to test the range. OTOH, our wireless printer lives on the counter under the bedroom TV and works great!

My second point was that this system is designed to allow you to connect quickly and easily to different Wifi systems while allowing your private network to stay undisturbed. If I had to buy a second router to build the system I would get a second Bullet, because they are a very low cost option, and by having two the same you have some new options. One of these options is to put the upstream Bullet (upstream = closer to the internet) outside with an omnidirectional antenna, probably mounted to the ladder or to something on the roof. Then set it up to connect wirelessly to the inside Bullet and you will not need to run wires other than an ethernet cable from the POE adapter.  
  

[JimDyer]

Jim,

Sorry, re-read an earlier post of yours where I see you have the BULLET2 in your MH.

I checked L.Com and the BULLET2 is $39US  and the BULLET M2HP is $79US

At http://www.ubnt.ca/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=84&category_id=37&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

the BULLET M2HP is $76CDN and the BULLET2 is $41.99CDN

However their prices for antennae are pretty dear.... so I'm looking at another source. This one states it ships from Ontario: I haven't checked what final price will be with shipping etc.

http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-270/Antenna-Marine-Waterproof-Stainless-dsh-Steel/Detail.bok#

not strait forward.

Also, I am not sure what antenna to get, i.e. dBi

You do realize that the ubnt.ca guy is not affiliated with Ubiquiti and appears to be using the trademarks without authorization?

Try L-com.com for better prices on antennas.

I'm on my way out the door, will reply later.

[Edward Buker]

Jeff,

I think it is a lot of effort to do things twice. I would either do a dash mount, like I did, if it was convenient to get ethernet cables to that location and you also had a good location with power to mount the POE and router with 120V available for the other end of the ethernet cable. The other consideration is that you do not mind setting it up or taking it down for use which takes a couple of minutes.

If that was less convenient I would do a ladder mount and run the ethernet cable down the ladder using velcro straps and into the engine compartment using a marine cable fitting above the engine hatch. Then locate the best routing to get the cable into the closet. From there sort out where to mount the POE and router. I like the airport exress but a Linksys would work also. If you are mounting a router inside the envelope of your coach I do not think there would be an issue linking to it from anywhere in the coach from my experience. The only issue I see is that I would probably want a small spring loaded vertical antenna if doing the ladder mount in case a tree limb was to contact it. Lcom has one but it was a little more expensive. From a learning viewpoint you can play with either arrangement before any installation takes place.

Later Ed

[Jeff Watt]

Jim,

Good to know about ubnt.ca

Thanks ......... chat later.

It is now attitude adjustment hour  

[JimDyer]

Jeff, there are two   types of antennas I'd look at if I were you. If you're going inside with the mount, go with a compact directional antenna and make the mount flexible, allowing you to point it.  If you look at L-com's 'closeout' page, the first item is a 12dB directional for $10.00. That's the one I have.

If you plan on an outside mounting, go with  a 10 to 12 dB omnidirectional antenna, which will be roughly 48"x 3/4" and cost $50 to $70 each. 8dB will be a little weak.

Make sure they're 2.4Ghz and have an N type connector.

I don't think you need to mount  the downstream router mid-coach, unless wifi in the bedroom is a big deal for you.

[Edward Buker]

Jeff,

Jim has some good info on gain of 2.4GHZ omni antennas but I think you need to balance gain vs size here given that there are wind load issues driving and branch issues coming into campsites. The real issue with signal strength at 2.4ghz is getting a clean line of site view to the transmitting antenna. By getting a ladder mount antenna in place you have the best opportunity for that line of site view. I would go with a 3db vertical that is just 8.7 inches long if it was non flexible. I would mount it on the ladder and try and have it be protected by not having the tip elevated above the ladder. I would run it with a Bullet and get it to connect to a router and then check the signal strength. I would raise it to see if the aluminum ladder mount is causing much attenuation and if so find a good compromise height for mounting. These are stiff fiberglass antennas made for fixed locations so you need to take that into account.
 http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=22263
This is taller, higher gain, and has a spring base which may be a good way to go. Ther are some rubber duck type antennas that are also flexible.
 http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=27275
You may want to discuss this application with Lcom and see what they recommend. I think any vertical antenna that has line of site view of a campground wifi antenna will do the job quite well. My first choice would be a short one that was flexible.

later Ed

[JimDyer]

Actually, Ed, I would try your 2" PVC pipe mounting system......Set the top of the pipe at about the top of the ladder, and put a stop in the pipe (bolt or whatever) so that the antenna tip just clears the pipe. Then to use the system just lift it up and pop in a temp stop to keep it high. Of course with a short antenna you could have it above the roofline but below your a/c's .  

If somebody tries this I'd love to hear what size antenna you find practical.

[Edward Buker]

Jim,

As I think about it this 6db antenna is 12 inches high and would be a good compromise. 1.5inch sched 40 PVC has a 1.5 ID and a 2.0 OD and this antenna has a 1.25 base width that would go inside the pipe nicely.  http://www.l-com.com/multimedia/datasheets/DS_HGV-2406U.PDF . If you had a length of 1.5 inch ID PVC pipe that was coupled to the ladder with the top of the pipe even with the top of the ladder and the total pipe length was the length of the antenna plus the Bullet plus an inch or so. You would then be able to use a Quick release pin to move the assembly from fully enclosed (down position) to antenna exposed (up position) very easily with two holes drilled in the right place. (may be drilled offset from center to accomidate the cable exit from the Bullet) http://www.amazon.com/Jergens-Stainless-Kwik-Lok-T-Handle-Quick-Release/dp/B003H9LY88/ref=pd_sbs_indust_3 .

 I would have a PVC end cap with a hole drilled in it the diameter of the antenna end cap plus a 1/16th and have it glued to the top of the PVC pipe. In the down position you would want the top of the antenna just exposed enough to grip it (probably the antenna end cap would be about right) and pull it up. The PVC end cap and antenna hole would hold the antenna from wind vibration and somewhat protect the assembly unit from the elements as well as branches in the down position. In the up position, if the PVC hole for the pin was drilled right, the base of the antenna where it widens could rest against the inside of the PVC end cap in the up position. This would help keep things more rigid.

 The best way to deal with the small ethernet cable loop for raising and lowering the antenna would have to be worked out.

Attached are some photos of my satellite system cabling that I use Velcro straps and marine fittings to exit the coach and travel up the ladder. Cat 5 ethernet cable would be a breeze to run up ladder and no holes in the roof would be a plus. The blue center RG6U barrel connector is something I adapted to the marine deck fittings. They normally come with a rubber insert to hold wiring which would be what you would want. West Marine has them for several wire sizes.

This PVC assembly could be a winner painted in a coach color....

Later Ed

[Jeff Watt]

Ed,

Your proposed install is interesting. I like the idea of the antenna protected from wind/branches until it is needed. would it make any sense to have a 1.25 (or 1.5 ground down a bit) washer at the bottom of the Bullet for it to rest on the quick release pin? or between the bullet/antenna? Do you think there would be too much movement/bouncing of the assembly,  although as you mention the antenna has a 1.25 base so there is minimal sideways movement possible inside the pvc pipe (or am I missing something in your description other).

I don't think the Cat5 cable could go inside the ladder (that would be neat) so you'd just attach it to the outside, possibly in a plastic auto wire protector.

Would a small spring or bunge cord work to hold the extra cable inside the pvc?

Jeff

[Edward Buker]

Jeff,

I think the washer is probably not needed. The Bullet can rest on the pin quite nicely given the antenna and Bullet are not that heavy. The Bullet does not have that much lateral movement inside the PVC to begin with so I think this all would work quite well given the bottom of the Bullet would be maybe 8 or more inches down the from the top of the PVC pipe in the up position. The antenna opening in the PVC cap would fit tightly to the tapered base of the antenna. If I had any issue with tolerance or movement I would run a length of foam stick on weatherstrip up the inside of the pipe to take up some tolerance against the Bullet but that is probably not needed.

The Cat 5 cable would be held nicely with velcro straps, I have silver ones that I got at one of the Big Box stores. The Cat5 cable is available covered in a gray sheath and I would see no reason to cover it with something bulky and more obvious but would buy a UV exterior rated cable.

 Not sure of the best way to handle the up down Cat5 cable loop but just leaving it moderately tight in the up position and a small loop in the down position would probably not hurt anything. Hope this helps. I may have to get in the shop and do some tinkering myself this winter....

Later Ed

[Jeff Watt]

Ed,

Looking on L.Com site I found the following:

http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=34206

This comes in different lengths. May work well, or the grommets may be a nuisance. If I drilled a hole in the coach up high (say just below/near the marker light) to run this cable into the bedroom, do you have any idea what might be in that area and is possible to get into the coach? Or do you think it is easier to go down the ladder, into the engine area and then into the bedroom. Some kind of cable insulation would be needed if running through the engine bay, correct?

Jeff

[Edward Buker]

Jeff,

That cable looks like a good approach. I am not sure what is up in that area of the coach from a drilling viewpoint so you would need to be careful starting with a small drill and then poking through the hole with a straight piece of copper wire. If it seems clear there then you could use the appropriate drill/hole saw.

I usually opt for what is foolproof even if it is a bit more effort when it comes to these type projects. I like the ladder approach because I could drill in a place where I could see the back side of the panel above the hatch at the base of my ladder. That makes it a safe spot to drill. There is wiring that runs across from one side to the other, already in place, so I just tie wrapped my cables to that bundle. I do not cover any of these wires with plastic sleeve in this location unless I am concerned about rubbing on something. If there was power involved I would but these are just signal cables. If you were concerned the split plastic sleeve is inexpensive. I brought my cabling in through the bottom of the closeet on the passenger side for my satellite system install but whatever works best in your coach based on the layout.

Someone may be able to comment if that area is pretty safe to drill through. There should not be too much up there close to the outer rear cap.

Later Ed