Another Engine Failure could have been prevented

[Dave Atherton]

Today going to report failure of Cummins ISL 400 ( engine dusted ) this makes number 6 engine
failure for 2018. Cause of failure loose clamp on air filter and entry of dust. Information provided
from motorhome owner service shop report and repair cost of approx $ 38,000. Looking over the
Information on the past 6 engine failures ( not one oil sample ever taken that could have prevent
heavy damage and failure ). Today Owner is going to remove Cummins ISL 400 and going to install
Used Cummins ISL 400 at Quartzsite in Monaco motorhome. The motorhome has been removed
from service shop 200 miles away in a halfway disassembled fashion engine parts in boxes. Looking
at pictures of damage and removed parts from inside, the outcome nobody has planed at our age
for this kind money outlay. I do understand many people do there own service and maintenance
and would suggest making a check list of add on preventive maintance, belts ,hoses , clamps air
Filter to turbocharger, oil samples. What happens these overlooked little things will lead into big
Problems ahead. Having your motorhome serviced note: service shop check list and add things
You want checked and have them sign off on list it has been checked. Make a paper trail on service.
The list of engines on top that failed ( owner always had same shop do all his service and loose clamp
on air filter was loose that turned into a  I said,you said event. Jim Nichols with a Cummins owner
that is a friend of his just went through this. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Fred Cook]

Dave.... last month I visited a friend that lives about 2 miles down a gravel road.  The dust was horrendous and completely covered our toad and our 455 HP cat with a thigh layer of dust.  Had to suffer the same upon leaving, going back out to the main road. You would have to see the volume of dust to believe it. Anyway, should I be concerned that some of that dust made it inside my motor?

[Jerry Emert]

Dave, do you have a suggested list to get us started?  Going in for PMs next week.  Thanks
Jerry

[Jeff Watt]

Dave.... last month I visited a friend that lives about 2 miles down a gravel road.  The dust was horrendous and completely covered our toad and our 455 HP cat with a thigh layer of dust.  Had to suffer the same upon leaving, going back out to the main road. You would have to see the volume of dust to believe it. Anyway, should I be concerned that some of that dust made it inside my motor?

Well you only had to do the trip once. Every time I leave home I have to contend with either 3 or 4 miles of gravel, depending on direction I’m going. In the spring and especially fall when my neighbouring farmers are out in force, the gravel is pulverized and (hopefully) not meeting a 4wh drive with a cultivator or a combine with a 30ft header. SO I deal with a lot of dust and the intake at the top L rear is a really good place for dust to get sucked in. I’ve tried going slow or relatively fast and it doesn’t make any difference. Sometimes it depends on wind direction. I’ve had the interior of the coach get dusted in really bad days.

So,  I change air filters a lot more regular than one should on these engines. Doesn’t help that the filter minder shows half full with a brand new filter. Often change with only 5k miles as minder shows full.

Nobody seems willing to pave the road for me:(

[Dave Atherton]

Gentleman, the answer is yes. The first thing I would suggest, get a oil sample and get to your
Caterpillar for testing ( stay with Caterpillar oil testing lab ).second check your air filter by which
removal of the air filter and take a light looking into the air filter housing. What you are looking
for opening inside rear of housing that goes direct to the turbocharger is coating of dust where you can see dragging your finger or take a white cloth and check and see is any dirt or dust present.
Third check the air filter clamps from air filter housing to the turbocharger make sure all clamps are tight. Once you get your oil sample if any problem to understanding I can help you. Let’s start
with taking oil sample and checking your air filter housing as explained , than check all the clamps
from air filter housing and seal on the air filter for being tight. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Fred Cook]

Dave... We are supposed to go on a 600 mile trip on Monday. Are you saying I should postpone the trip and get an oil sample first?

[Dave Atherton]

Fred, what I suggested getting oil sample but the oil samples are not processed the same day.
First remove the air filter and check it out for replacement or shop at low pressure blow out air
Filter from inside to outside. ( note: do not thump air filter on cement or shop bench because
paper is glued to metal cover and will crack loose allowing dust to enter engine around the closed glued ends ). Second air filter housing looking the opening where tube connects to the turbocharger
for any signs of dust by wiping your hand or white cloth. Note: if you can wipe your hand or
white cloth and dust is present better get oil sample ASAP because engine has pulled dust into
Turbocharger around the air filter. Third check all the clamps on tubes from air filter to the
Turbocharger. Forth remove clamp where rubber boot from air filter housing to turbocharger,
if you can see dust or carbon present within the turbocharger you engine is pulling dust. How
can I be sure that I did not pull dust into engine because engine sounds just fine.taking oil
sample will answer that question. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Fred Cook]

Dave, I took the air filter out this morning and was surprised that one of the four wing nuts had broken off. There is some grime built up in cap area and the filter has some grime on it, on the outside and a small amount on the inside.  I was able to unscrew the broken wing nut out with vice grips but one of the other wing nuts is missing a small plate that holds the threaded female unit in place. All CAT places are closed today and Monday for Veterans day.  i called Speedco and they are asking for a part number on the filter and I don't have one.  No part number is located on the filter.  Would you happen to know the part number?  Fred

[Dave Atherton]

Fred, that is ok to run on your trip and you can address problem when you get back. When you get
back and have some time would than suggest taking a oil sample if you so chose you want to. One
Thing, I do not want to is alarm anyone but just calling to everyone attention here on how oil samples
are in your best interest. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Fred Cook]

Thanks Dave.... We went to visit our daughter today in St Louis area.  I took an oil sample with me to a Speedco located in the St Louis area and got an analysis.  All markers were well within tolerance.  Also purchased a new filter from them I will be putting on tomorrow.  Taking off Monday for our trip.  Thanks again!

[Pat Long]

This may help with those with questions on how to perform the taking of the sample.  Make sure engine oil is hot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAJ1rZsrqJU

[Marty and Suzie Schenck]

Another place to check is ANY joints between the air filter and where it enters the air intake at the engine. Specifically rubber elbow's and joints. The clamps come loose and or often break. That engine compartment gets very hot and the rubber joints and elbows become brittle and subject to cracking. That is where a small amount of dirt can contaminate an engine and do a great deal of damage. This is something we can check on our own and request it at any time maintenance is done. Believe me, I've seen what it can do in class 8 trucks. Marty 

[Dave Atherton]

Good morning, I want to expand further on engine failure on the road. I'm changing out a Cummins ISL engine.  A lady traveling alone broke down and was towed to service shop about 250 miles from Quartzsite. After receiving an extremely high estimate for repair/rebuild, an acquaintance suggested she contact me. Upon my inspection and data retrieved from the engine ECM I determined the engine did not warrant a complete rebuild. She had the coach towed to my shop in Quartzsite. I plan to update everyone in detail after I finish  this mess and get lady on the road. I have invited this lady to the Quartzsite Rally in January as guest and new member to our Beaver family.
Regarding the original service shop, it appears that greed has over taken the American values we were bought up with.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Pat Long]

Dave,      Is it possible to share the shop name so as to allow other members information in future repair costs?   I know if I were on the road I would like to know who to avoid

[Dave Atherton]

Hi Pat, before I would say the service shop involved,  this shop also was involved with a new beaver member. back in July with a Caterpillar engine. I arranged for this party motorhome to be removed
and towed to Empire Cat in Phoenix. The repair went from a complete engine failure to a engine
Replacement cylinder head at Empire Cat in Phoenix. Not avoiding answering your question but
Need to know from Steve Huber if that is allowed calling out a service shop by name on the forum
Rules. Pat let’s hear from what Steve Huber thoughts are in this subject. I have no problem giving
out the name of this service shop. Dave Atherton Rtired Cat  Mechanic