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Author Topic: Engine air filter  (Read 1724 times)

Joel Ashley

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2019, 10:15:01 PM »
I provide this only with the deepest respect for the opinions of knowledgeable fellow Beavers.  But feel I would be negligent not to put forth the unpopular alternative that the latest generation of K&N diesel filters are different.  Their design now uses a hybrid filter medium of a thick "lofted" non-woven synthetic media co-pleated between 2 layers of powder-coated aluminum “wire”.  You no longer have to deal with a messy oil coating to wash off and reapply.  Just spray on degreaser and blow or hose out or powerwash from the inside.  Admittedly it’s probably still understandably more palatable for many to just front the cash repeatedly for a new filter.

When I put to Bob Henderson (Henderson’s Lineup in Grants Pass) the strong concerns previously related here in older threads, he responded with a reassuring confidence in the latest K&N product.  Bob is definitely one whose opinions regarding anything chassis is to be seriously taken.  I had the old style K&N on my previous coach and had no issues despite many off highway endeavors.  The only hassle was cleaning and reoiling a couple times... the oil made things messier.

All that said, I can’t disagree with using any of the other stock filters recommended in this thread.  They will (initially at least) be less expensive anyway, all other parameters aside.  I just felt that all viewpoints should be represented, even this perhaps less popular one.  I know there are one or two others here that are into race cars, knowledgeable about those air filters and turboed engines, and would, like Al, back the option.  Nevertheless, out of deep regard for my C9 I’d still not likely get myself into a situation where I had to low gear wide open up a steep, dirt backcountry road, regardless of which filter I had.

Joel
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 10:20:43 PM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
towing a 1997 Ford Explorer Limited, aka "Pearl"

Go Blazers!

Dwight Lakusta

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2019, 01:39:15 AM »
Well Joel you have me intrigued. As I said earlier in my post, I spoke to my friend who is a CAT mechanic, rebuilds 6-12 cylinder caterpillar engines every day, and he said never to touch a K&N filter EVER on a commercial truck engine.   But I am going to do some digging on my end.  I live in Alberta, and the good news is we are one of the largest end users of Caterpillar in the world, and have access to many resources for Caterpillar.

Tonight I will make another call to my other friend who works at Suncor oil sands, and rebuilds CAT engines all day, and get his opinion.

Monday morning I am going to make two calls.  One to the Finning main service location in Alberta and speak to someone in service, and get an opinion from them. Also will call union tractor which is the largest Caterpillar repair shop underneath Finning Canada, and I will get an opinion from them. 

I will try to get a service manager or team lead  for both calls. 

If these filters are acceptable to the people who are Caterpillar... I will buy one as well!! Who does not want more flow and power!

I will keep you posted.
2003 Beaver Marquis Ruby 40, 3 slides, C12, 505HP. Current unit.
2008 Newmar Dutch Star, 40, 4 slides, 8.9 ISL, 400HP.
2000 Monaco Windsor, 40, 2 slide, 8.3 ISC, 330HP.

Joel Ashley

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2019, 04:07:03 AM »
Dwight, please keep in mind that many in the business are legitimately prejudiced against K&N’s original oiled filters, and may or may not hold that against even the most recent versions.  As per my previous post, Robert Henderson should be among those you pose the question to, as he has more involvement than most with the issue.  And to repeat, you can’t go wrong with the other quality standard filters available, i.e. you don’t want your friend mad at you.
https://www.hendersonslineup.com

By the way, my mother was born on the Alberta prairie in a sod house;  her mother was responsible for the name of the town of Galahad.  She was fond of the stories of King Arthur.

Not that much of this has anything to do with Gary’s original post.


Joel
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 04:16:24 AM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
towing a 1997 Ford Explorer Limited, aka "Pearl"

Go Blazers!

Gerald Farris

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2019, 06:19:41 AM »
Here is a filtration study that was ran on air filters for a GM Duramax Diesel truck with restriction, filter dirt holding ability, and filtering ability (amount of dirt that passed through) for numerous filter brands and the study has a 2019 copyright so this is the new K&N filter. I have seen similar reports on HD diesel air filters that showed about the same results, but I can not locate one now. This should back my viewpoint about K&N.  https://dieseliq.com/aftermarket-air-filters

Gerald
2002 Solitaire (2017 -  )
2000 Marquis, C12 (2004 - 2017)
1993 Patriot  (2000-2004)

Joel Ashley

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2019, 07:59:35 AM »
The 33-2135 used in the cited study is made of the oiled cotton.

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
towing a 1997 Ford Explorer Limited, aka "Pearl"

Go Blazers!

Dwight Lakusta

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2019, 07:43:22 PM »
Dwight, please keep in mind that many in the business are legitimately prejudiced against K&N’s original oiled filters, and may or may not hold that against even the most recent versions.  As per my previous post, Robert Henderson should be among those you pose the question to, as he has more involvement than most with the issue.  And to repeat, you can’t go wrong with the other quality standard filters available, i.e. you don’t want your friend mad at you.
https://www.hendersonslineup.com

By the way, my mother was born on the Alberta prairie in a sod house;  her mother was responsible for the name of the town of Galahad.  She was fond of the stories of King Arthur.

Not that much of this has anything to do with Gary’s original post.


Joel

I am excited to see what some locals have to say tomorrow.  Today I may even watch the King Arthur movie! It’s a good film!
2003 Beaver Marquis Ruby 40, 3 slides, C12, 505HP. Current unit.
2008 Newmar Dutch Star, 40, 4 slides, 8.9 ISL, 400HP.
2000 Monaco Windsor, 40, 2 slide, 8.3 ISC, 330HP.

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2019, 08:40:56 PM »
Folks,
I think we've beat this one to death. It's your engine, use whatever filter you want.
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp
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Dave Atherton

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2019, 11:44:22 PM »
Gentleman, cannot agree with Steve more he is correct. This past year there has been several
Topics that seems like change needs attention on something that some feel does not meet there
own engine needs. This is my take on several of these subjects, there is more to what end results
will add up dollar wise than information being posted. This past year 2018 there has been several
High dollar engine failures resulting with the thinking by some that taking of an oil sample doesn’t
save a person any money and really not worth outlay of money. Now we are talking about the Air
System getting a better filter that allows more air to pass. First question we need to ask yourself if more
air is passing through the filter element also the passing of the dirt fines that will take out an engine.
The owners of the ( 7 ) engines that failed in 2018 there was not oil sample taken by each of the
owners of the failed engines. ( outlay of repair cost $ 35,000. To $ 45,000. ) all 7 engines injested
dirt. Steve is again correct it is your engine but not the view of a trained mechanic. Before we keep
on where we can cut cost on our engines it is very cost effective at each service oil changes to take
oil samples. First area that will take out a running engine is allowing entry of very fine dirt through
air filter element, how can I know this taking a oil sample and you will be looking at the results.
Problem it seems to some views, I Change my oil on time and do not need oil samples. My suggestion
I provide information as part of the rest of the Beaver team for membership it is up to you if you
want to listen or not. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Dwight Lakusta

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2019, 01:31:50 AM »
Gentleman, cannot agree with Steve more he is correct. This past year there has been several
Topics that seems like change needs attention on something that some feel does not meet there
own engine needs. This is my take on several of these subjects, there is more to what end results
will add up dollar wise than information being posted. This past year 2018 there has been several
High dollar engine failures resulting with the thinking by some that taking of an oil sample doesn’t
save a person any money and really not worth outlay of money. Now we are talking about the Air
System getting a better filter that allows more air to pass. First question we need to ask yourself if more
air is passing through the filter element also the passing of the dirt fines that will take out an engine.
The owners of the ( 7 ) engines that failed in 2018 there was not oil sample taken by each of the
owners of the failed engines. ( outlay of repair cost $ 35,000. To $ 45,000. ) all 7 engines injested
dirt. Steve is again correct it is your engine but not the view of a trained mechanic. Before we keep
on where we can cut cost on our engines it is very cost effective at each service oil changes to take
oil samples. First area that will take out a running engine is allowing entry of very fine dirt through
air filter element, how can I know this taking a oil sample and you will be looking at the results.
Problem it seems to some views, I Change my oil on time and do not need oil samples. My suggestion
I provide information as part of the rest of the Beaver team for membership it is up to you if you
want to listen or not. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Very good point Dave.  In your experience, what brand and weight of oil are you running and how often/hours or time, changing the oil?
2003 Beaver Marquis Ruby 40, 3 slides, C12, 505HP. Current unit.
2008 Newmar Dutch Star, 40, 4 slides, 8.9 ISL, 400HP.
2000 Monaco Windsor, 40, 2 slide, 8.3 ISC, 330HP.

Doug Allman

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2019, 12:48:59 PM »
One point on this filter question, air, oil or any other that you may have.   IF you have a new coach with a new engine that is under a warranty - be absolutely sure you are using the same filters that the manufacturer of the coach built it with at minimum thru the warranty period.
You should also take oil samples and send to lab for analysis. Send every oil change to same lab for analysis to continue to get same parameters and analysis documented. Doing this will protect you from a non warranty critique from manufacturer should you ever have this situation. With no oil analysis you become the deep pocket as you have no data to back you and refute their claim.
I am with Joel and the K&N critique. I read what Gerald posted but as Joel pointed out it was with old type K&N filter. I like the ability to be able to clean a filter and reuse as I like to keep my rig at top performance. However it was pointed out to me that doing anything other than what was on a new coach, for at least the warranty period, I was significantly changing the liability. So I passed on using anything other than what came on the coach thru the warranty period at minimum as I had that pointed out to me by a CAT/CUMMINS Diagnostic Technician about my $60,000.00 600 hp CUMMINS.
I like everyone else likes to spend my money on the items that makes me feel good. Filters and Fuel are not on that list but the feel bad if that engine requires a rebuild is a very very bad feeling I do not want to ever experience. I think it goes to the songs lyrics of,   "I dont like Spiders and Snakes"     and using the best available filters and oil sampling is the very good feeling that your engine is in its best health possible. But that is only your choice to make..............Whatever you use the oil sample read outs will always make selling your coach a much more viable endeavor,  If you have them.
1991 Beaver Contessa  1994-2012   3116 Cat
2004 Beaver Marquis    2012 - 2017  C-12 CAT
2017 Entegra Cornerstone 45B   600 Cummins

Dwight Lakusta

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2019, 02:23:30 AM »
As I said I would I made some calls today.  K&N has a stigma around all the cat dealers, and it’s NO across the board. Everyone said never put a K&N on.  All of them as well said no warranty at all, voided instantly with a K&N regardless of the “new” one or “old” one. They have seen many dusted engines from K&N filters not sealing right at the base as well, on highway tractors. Not saying it’s the end all be all answer, but that’s the info I have today.

Sorry if I offended anyone. But I said I would call, and I did.

It’s a free country out there and if a guy wants to run whatever he wants he can.

I just wanted to get to the bottom of it, I feel satisfied.i will stick with my Donaldson blue.  Thanks.
2003 Beaver Marquis Ruby 40, 3 slides, C12, 505HP. Current unit.
2008 Newmar Dutch Star, 40, 4 slides, 8.9 ISL, 400HP.
2000 Monaco Windsor, 40, 2 slide, 8.3 ISC, 330HP.

Gary Merrifield

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2019, 05:30:16 AM »
I was the Equipment Manager for a Construction Company for 22 years and worked as. Mechanic for a Cat dealer for 10 years.
I am a firm believer in the oil sampling program. We did it on all of engines every oil change. We also kept the history for each machine from the time we purchased it up to the time we sold it.
Many many times we detected problems and corrected them before they turned into major problems.
Oil samples should just be part of your regular maintenance routine and it is really cheap insurance.
Gary &Stacy
2006 Patriot Thunder
525 Cat
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Doug Allman

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Re: Engine air filter
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2019, 01:16:44 PM »
The easiest way to be able to pay for the Oil Sampling is to pass up the large truck stops when refueling your coach. On our last week trip from southwest Arizona to Alabama we passed up those large truck stops at $3.15 a gallon and fueled at the $2.79 a gallon stations.  At $.36 a gallon difference or $.28 if you have the discount card for the large truck stops, taking on only a 100 gallons gets you the savings that more than pays for the oil sample on the next change.

This trip using 272 gallons for the 1850 miles yielded us at minimum enough to pay for our next 3 oil sample kits at the $.28 a gallon savings rate.  I agree it is very good insurance and easily achieved. All of the $2.78 stations we fueled at also had truck pumps with more than the needed room for a 45' coach pulling a tow.
1991 Beaver Contessa  1994-2012   3116 Cat
2004 Beaver Marquis    2012 - 2017  C-12 CAT
2017 Entegra Cornerstone 45B   600 Cummins
The following users thanked this post: Jim Nichols