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Author Topic: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.  (Read 1667 times)

Stan Simpson

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2019, 12:38:58 AM »
Here is a picture of the door mechanism on the one door that I can open. I winterized the coach a couple of days ago. That door is to the water bay. I had it open and forgot to latch it when I locked up for the night. Its locked, but it was never latched closed.

Does anything in the picture look out of place, or broken?
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Fred Brooks

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2019, 01:11:00 AM »
   Manually slide the solenoid plunger and see if it moves and unlocks the compartment outside handle. Fred
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Stan Simpson

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2019, 02:11:47 AM »
   Manually slide the solenoid plunger and see if it moves and unlocks the compartment outside handle. Fred

I have no idea what the solenoid plunger is, or what it looks like. Help?
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Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2019, 02:17:14 AM »
Stan,
There are probably 2 wires going to the solenoid, either a white and dark blue or a light and dark blue. The white or light blue is ground and the dark blue supplies the 12v pulse to activate the solenoid. Verify the gnd with a meter and that there is no voltage measured across the 2 wires. I think if you touch 12v to the dark blue wire, it should unlock the other bay solenoids.
Steve
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Stan Simpson

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2019, 02:34:07 AM »
Stan,
There are probably 2 wires going to the solenoid, either a white and dark blue or a light and dark blue. The white or light blue is ground and the dark blue supplies the 12v pulse to activate the solenoid. Verify the gnd with a meter and that there is no voltage measured across the 2 wires. I think if you touch 12v to the dark blue wire, it should unlock the other bay solenoids.
Steve

Steve, I re-posted the picture of the door mechanism below, with some questions on it. Appreciate if someone can answer. Thanks.
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Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2019, 03:29:20 AM »
The solenoid is what you are pointing at (black body that wires go into). The plunger is the rod that comes out of the end (left side in photo) and activates the mechanical latch/unlock mechanism. It looks like you've got 2 blue wires  feeding the solenoid. Look at where the wires come in to the door itself. There should be a connector where you can see 2 different color wires. This is where you want to apply the 12v to the dark blue wire. Don't worry about not having the wet bay door hooked up when you do this.
I'd like FRED BROOKS to validate my idea before you try it though as he probably has more experience with these doors than I do.
Steve
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Bill Lampkin

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2019, 04:02:53 AM »
Actually not a solenoid, but a motor that uses a rack and pinion mechanism to extend (lock) and retract (unlock) the door latch. Only two wires, as the motor runs in reverse when polarity changes via K21 relay.

Your plunger looks to be overextended. See if the bent nail linkage is loose or worn, as if the linkage gets out of alignment, that will lead to the plunger being overextended and door not opening.

Photo is of repair to my coach by BCS a year ago. Replaced 'shotgun' style actuators with new actuators and the mechanic went to some trouble to improve the linkage, using a small black ty-wrap to secure the one-way washer on the bent nail linkage, the cause of the linkage issue, according to him.

Yes, I got down into the weeds with the door latch as I had to replace a couple of lock cylinders when my key (TM211) would almost unlock the compartment latch. They make keys out of soft brass so they will break (in the lock cylinder) before you break the lock linkage. TM still has keys, lock cylinders (keyed to 211) and actuators. They no longer make the 'shotgun' style. although they are still available from other vendors.
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Mike Shumack

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2019, 11:11:23 AM »
I just replaced two actuators (TriMark brand/style) and had to do the mounting mod (the metal strap/bracket in your photo) as you did - as they don't have the same bolt pattern as the originals.
However I found that NW RV Supply has the original "gun style" now. I bought two more. I don't like modifying if I don't have to. http://www.nwrvsupply.com/product/L19062-01.html

I noticed that the replacement actuators have a funny behavior (I don't know if the originals do too) when they extend to lock the door, after a full extension they retract some (like there is a spring inside). So they go out into lock position then come back in some (unlocking or almost to unlock)). This made it hard to get an adjustment. when I get the coach back from body shop, I will replace the two new actuators with the ones (gun style) I just got.
- Mike

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Fred Brooks

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2019, 01:49:54 PM »
    Stan, As Steve suggested, trace the wires from the actuator motor or solenoid to the supply wiring. (there should be wires going to the compartment door) If you can unplug that harness, You will need to momentarily apply 12 volts to the 2 wires going to the door. Don't worry about which wires you apply the 12volts to as the polarity will make it actuate in one direction and then reverse the 2 wires and momentarily touch the actuator again and it should move in the opposite direction. I use my Bosch cordless screw gun battery which is 12 volts. I made a jumper wires with 2 alligator clips that I can plug into the battery and test stuff that requires 12 volts to trouble shoot. I'll take a picture and re-post. Mike, the original actuators do "rebound" a little after actuation. Can't tell you why other than it is engineered that way. It Is a hassle to adjust "just right" as you state. Fred
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Stan Simpson

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2019, 03:10:57 PM »
Fred, and Steve:

Ok, I understand you want me to put 12V to the two wires shown in the picture. At the same time? I will have to take a battery out of my car, and use it to supply the voltage? The water bay door, which is open, but not unlocked is on the opposite side of the coach from the battery bay. If I have long enough jumpers, can I use that power?

Thank you Bill Lampkin for that explanation. Mike Shumack, I think the two doors, in the rear of the coach, have replaced motors/solenoids and they may be the new style. I cannot fathom how they are getting power to operate however.
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Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2019, 05:23:45 PM »
Stan,
I wouldn't do it. First, it will only verify the actuator on the wet bay works. That's not your problem. If you do it anyway, I would not use the car battery unless you insert a 2a fuse in the line. Too much current available if you accidently touch something that has a path to ground. Also, be sure to have the actuator connector disconnected and only apply the voltage to the wires going to the actuator. DO NOT apply voltage to the wires coming from the coach body as one of them connected to ground at the K21 relay. I forgot about that when I originally suggested the idea. Sorry.

Some other musings;
1. We are operating on the assumption that, like Bill's coach, the actuators on all the impacted bay doors jammed for some unknown reason and will not open even with a key (and we are also assuming you have correct key).

2. Mike noted that there should be a key code on the locks. Is there one and if so, what is it?

3. Voltage for the keyless entry comes from the chassis batteries, not the house batteries. If your Big Boy relay isn't working, the chassis batteries could be low and the Aladdin / Inverter readings only show house battery voltage. Try starting the coach to ensure the chassis batteries are also charged. This will also send a lock signal to the bays on key on and an unlock signal on key off. It will take the FOB out of the picture.

4. Did you replace the battery in the FOB?

5. IMHO, if you have the correct key and the doors don't release after starting and shutting down the coach, the "long screwdriver" approach that Bill mentioned is about the only solution.

Steve
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Stan Simpson

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2019, 06:09:09 PM »
Steve,
If you look at my prior posts, you will see that I posted a picture of the TM211 key, and said that there is an etched TM211 on the lock cylinders visible on the door handle. Last night, I went out and started the coach. I have never had to use the battery boost. The engine starts right up, so I assume the chassis batteries are fine. I will put a meter on them today. I also assume, could be wrong, that starting the coach and letting it idle for a bit, then turning it off, is the same as turning the ignition on and off to "bypass" the fob as you mention. The locks did not unlock when I did that. In all my years of ownership, I have never known the bay doors to unlock when I turned off the ignition.

Do you think it would be helpful for me to re-set the key-less entry code? The suggestion to punch in the code, and then hit '9' didn't work either. It is mentioned in my owner's manual as well.

I'm reluctant to do the "long screwdriver" method because I don't want to damage anything. Do you think a locksmith could get in to my electrical bay? That is the door that has K21 behind it, so it is the only one I think I need open for now.

Thank you for mentoring me on this problem...everyone.
Stan

Edit: Looking at the picture of my door mechanism above, (keep in mind its upside down because the door is raised) where should I try to probe with a "long screwdriver" to try to get the electrical bay door open?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 07:27:55 PM by Stan Simpson »
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Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2019, 08:41:29 PM »
Stan,
Sorry re the key code. I missed it in your post. Resetting the code is a possibility but before I did that I'd try to verify if the current code is working.  To do this, on the wet bay door unplug the connector to the door actuator. Then set your meter to DC volts and hook the probes to the 2 pins on the connector coming from the coach body. Polarity shouldn't make any difference if you are using a digital readout meter. Now use your key FOB and press the button a few times. You should see the meter reading change. If so, the existing code is working. If not, either the code is bad or there is an electrical problem.
To get the bay doors open, I believe you have to get the  latches on each side of the door to release. Use the long screwdriver to push the latches back so they release from the bracket. You'll need to do each side separately and pull out on the door bottom once the latch clears the bracket to keep it from re-latching. Then you can release that corner of the door as the latch should clear the bracket.
Steve
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Mike Shumack

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2019, 09:19:22 PM »

I'm reluctant to do the "long screwdriver" method because I don't want to damage anything. Do you think a locksmith could get in to my electrical bay? That is the door that has K21 behind it, so it is the only one I think I need open for now.


If all the bay doors are not unlocking, then I would be looking for an electrical issue - something common to all the doors, like a relay, broken wire, or unlock code that got erased (and not trying to force one door open just yet).

If the problem is that you don't have a "physical key" to open a door with - then a locksmith can probably pick the lock.

I saw the post about the lock mechanism over-extending, but how likely is it that all the door locks have overextended? I think you have the wrong key if you cant get any door to unlock with a key.

I don't see how you can force a door open without bending or scratching something.
 
- Mike

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Bill Lampkin

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Re: Power Bay Doors will not unlock.
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2019, 10:06:25 PM »
The long screwdriver is used to move the door latch, the white plastic thing that actually keeps the door closed.
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