C12 Injectors

[Michael Turnipseed]

After following board advice, and not liking the way my oil looked at 3k I did an oil analysis. Every thing checked out great with the exception of excessive fuel in oil.
Well the results from a testing facility were 2 injectors were bad/leaking and 4 were delivering to much fuel. Now my question is, my extended warranty policy will only pay for the Cat.reman parts. Would you run them, or pay the $1600.00 difference for new. Cat does offer the same 12mo.warranty on the reman. My mechanic does not want to offer his 12mo. 100k warranty on the reman parts due to failure rate.
Any advise from our mechanics!
Thanks Michael.

[David T. Richelderfer]

What is the difference in cost between the reman versus new parts?  If it's not more than a few hundred dollars, then consider having the warranty pay the reman cost and you pay the difference.  A few hundred dollars pays the extra and you get the shop warranty.  Or, is the difference I refer to that whole $1,600?

[Michael Turnipseed]

Hi David
The cost difference is $1691.00.

[Eric Maclean]

Micheal
If it were me I'd do some more investgation on the rebuilt injector fail rate if in deed the failure rate is high enough that your mechanic won't warranty the work I'd be considering their advice.
If the failure rate is high you may consider that $1600. Is a considerable different but not compared to having to do the job more than once most shops won't cover both parts and labor at full rate which means you'll likely end up with a bill on part or all of the labour even if the injectors are covered by warranty.
I would suggest speaking to Dave Atherton on this subject and get his feel for the rebuilt VS new injectors.
Good luck Eric

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Michael,
CAT replaced an injector on my C9 and I opted for the reman unit. The warrantee being the same was the determining factor. CAT wouldn't offer the same warrantee if the reman had a higher fail rate. Consider that your mechanic/shop will make considerably more $ on new units. With the CAT warrantee, sounds like the shop is only warrantying their labor. (IMHO find a new shop next time).
Steve

[Michael Turnipseed]

Thanks everyone
Here’s the update. The warranty company, when researching the cheapest way to go took the core charge off of the sale price, not adding to sale price to be refunded upon return of core. The core charge is $190.00 each plus $300.00 in shipping so the bottom line it will cost about 300.00 more for new Injectors
Thanks all

[Michael Turnipseed]

Also the warranty company was pushing G&S rebuilds which is what my shop wouldn’t warranty,(This came out after original post)
Seems that after we got involved and asked to deal with a supervisor we actually got to Cat parts,.
So in-defense of the shop, it’s the warranty company tried to pull a fast one.
It was the shop that called and sent us an email of what they proposed originally, which they rejected any warranty on.
I sorry for the confusion. My shop has always had my best interest at heart.
Thanks again
Michael

[Eric Maclean]

That's good news in the end it usually pays to deal with a mechanic you know and trust.
Good luck
Eric

[Dave Atherton]

Gentleman, may I make a suggestion OEM injectors or reman injectors. Caterpillar reman parts meet all caterpillar specs. One thing
I would point out most all injectors turned in for core credit, there is nothing wrong with the injectors and missed diagnostic troubleshooting
with problem at hand. This has been a very common problem, injectors replacement only to find out problem root cause location in
different area. Good example with BAC member in service shop last week and informed that he needs a set of injectors because they are all bad and making oil level over full. Member removed motorhome from service shop to his home. Hope member can fill in the rest of story.
In closing it is rare for a Caterpillar C-12 to have injector replacement before 500,00 miles other than spending lot of money  Dave
Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Michael Turnipseed]

Thanks for jumping in Dave, not sure what to think now. As far as the Cat vs Reman shop has no problem , or with warranty on either one. Just it G&S refurbished parts.
Even though all injectors were sent to a testing facility and found to be over fueling, this may not be the issue?
Hope to here from other member.

[Mike Shumack]

I'm not familiar with "G&S refurbished" injectors. I assume that is a third-party refurbishment company, if I read your post correctly. If that is the case, then I agree with your mechanic Not to use them. But if the injectors are refurbished by CAT, then I wouldn't be concerned.

The CAT diagnostic software can test the injectors for flow and determine if they are bad. If you have your Coach at an independent shop and they are using a generic scan tool/computer, then it is possible they don't have all the diagnostic  tests available that a true CAT diagnostic computer would have. If that is the case, you may want to take your Coach to a "real" CAT repair shop. However it sounds like all the injectors have been removed already and sent out for testing - so in this case you're in pretty deep and it is probably cheapest to have them install the reman CAT injectors at this time (rather than try to get a second opinion).

good luck

Here's a video on how to replace injectors (not that you're doing the work yourself, but nice to know what is being done). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps6W0FClxlY

[Dave Atherton]

Mike you mean well but posting UTube video as a go to repair is lacking meaning to the real problem to non-trained membership
attempting very technical repairs that only a experienced mechanic would be able to preform. Testing a Cat  injector means being
the injector is a two stage , what that tells a person the electronic caterpillar injector cannot be tested by a outside repair shop. my personal thoughts this past year viewing this forum the trend to keep posting UTube videos. The only problem here Mike you are taking members down a path that in many cases is miss information that cannot be
backed up. The reason that I question what your posting I can reinforce Caterpillar position on factual content that
You cannot provide. Understand I not taking a personal issue you because you mean well in helping members
but we cannot post opinion that are not in line with builder of membership engines with non- factual content.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Michael Turnipseed]

Dave , can I ask a question, if in fact after sending these injectors to be tested before any further work was done, and the results showed over fueling ... would that contribute to unburnt fuel, leading to this issue.
On initial conversation with shop after oil ananlysis, first was  running pressure and electrical checks the next step was to send them out to a testing center, if they came back ok. Then they would move to other systems.
At this point new injectors have been approved. Once done oil will be dropped, run for 50 miles, dumped. Refilled and filters changed
Head out on 2k trip do another oil test.
Does that sound ok
Thanks

[Dave Atherton]

Mike can you bring me up to date what going on with your engine before going to service shop than at service shop non- Cat or
Caterpillar service shop. Service mechanic connect service tool called cat ET to engine and what caterpillar fault codes did they pull
Up. Can you give them to me, was this motorhome in shop for low power ? What color was your exhaust smoke while running running and parked. I can help you out but not buying into injector replacement your injectors sent out to caterpillar or non caterpillar testing
Shop. Last how did service shop determine injectors failure. Mike feel free to contact me via: Steve Huber on ask Dave. Dave Atherton
Retired Cat Mechanic

[Lee Welbanks]

This whole thing sounds like a few don't know what they are doing. When these injectors were installed in the motor did they update the injector trim codes in the ECM for each injector and what position it was installed? I would almost bet money it was not done.
I've never heard of G & S injectors, and why is the warranty company pushing these, do they get a kickback?