Author Topic: Norcold reports "no AC"  (Read 26846 times)

Gerald Farris

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2011, 05:28:13 AM »
Keith,
It sounds like you may have a bad 120V heating element.

Gerald

Edward Buker

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2011, 01:39:26 PM »
If it is flashing "No" it is probably a female version of the circuit board in the refrigerator. You need to then order the male version :-)

I think Gerald has the most likely candidate for the fail. At room temperature the heating elements are typically about 48ohms, 38 to 53ohms is spec. The DC hi fault code is 15.4 volts and it seems unlikely that you ever reached that level, not sure what caused that error but ignore it unless it repeats. You also have a DC heating element that should read .81 to .91 ohms. I would check both elements. If the elements are O.K. and the AC and DC supply are at the proper voltage then you should try the power board reset procedure in this manual if it applies to your frig.

http://www.muniac.com/PDF/ncoldnnewnseries.pdf

If the voltages and heating elements are O.K., and the board reset does not solve your problem then you will probably need a new main board. If there is an external relay feeding the AC heating element from the circuit board you could also have bad contacts in that relay.  Hope this helps.

Later Ed

JimDyer

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2011, 12:59:34 PM »
Don't mean to be rude, but a 10 year old norcold...........make plans for a residential!

Keith Oliver

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2011, 03:19:02 PM »
Ed:
You were absolutely right.
The fuse that I had replaced had blown again.  It was a female fuse, purchased at the only local RV supplier, on their (female parts person) advice that "we don't have one of those, but this one should work". At the sixth store that I tried (The Source) I was able to get the correct fuse.  12 hours in, it is still working, as only a male fuse would.
I also note that the Service manual you so kindly attached doesn't mention the sex/contrariness of the fuse, so would not have provided the correct clue.
So Thanks again Ed, you are a great resource.
Keith

Bill Sprague

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2011, 04:53:08 PM »
Double check the fuse again.  But, concentrate on the fuse holder itself.  Look for dirt, looseness and, especially corrosion.

It was over a year ago that I posted (above) my frustrations with the Norcold fuse.  During the first years of ownership I consumed a couple boxes of fuses.  

When I wrote that post, the current fuse was three years old and I thought the problem was solved.  I thought that crimping the fuse holder to hold the fuse tighter was a permanent fix.  About a month later, the fridge quit.  Out of habit and experience, I went straight to that fuse.  The circuit board had destroyed itself.  There was a black, charred circle around the that fuse.

My Norcold had experienced and electrical fire.  I am very happy that it contained itself to the circuit board.  It could have spread.  I don't know how close I came to a real motorhome fire.  There are a few recalls on the fridge I have.  One is to install a thermistor placed on the exhaust vent that will shut down the fridge if the stack gets hot.  

At the time I made a brief attempt to talk to Norcold.  I couldn't connect to anyone that was interested.  I focused on fixing the fridge before the beer got warm and  the milk spoiled.

I needed a new circuit board.  Getting one from Norcold got frustrating and the price was high.   Then I remembered fixing a fridge in an old Terry trailer we had.  The solution was an aftermarket circuit board favored by some (or many) service techs.  A little googling and I was able to remember the brand "Dinosaur".  http://www.dinosaurelectronics.com/Nor_boards.htm  Dinosaur quickly located a nearby dealer/repair service that quickly Fedexed the board to me at half the cost of a Norcold.  

The new board looked like the burnt one -- except everything was more "robust".  The troublesome fuse holder was especially more rugged and even had it's own little cover.   The board was easy to install in about a half hour.

I am convinced the Norcold fuse holder is a defective design issue.  It is too weak, too small, too loose and might have a "dissimilar metal" corrosion issue.   The corrosion or looseness caused mine to get hot enough that the solder inside the fuse would melt.  The fuses did not blow from an electrical fault.   The wires in the multiple fuses that I replaced were visibly intact and undamaged.  

I thought I fixed the Norcold fuse holder by crimping it to hold the fuse more securely.  It still got hot enough that the board burned around the holder.  I am worried that this flaw may have lead to motorhome fires.   I had one, but it was small.  There is no reason it couldn't have grown bigger.  


Keith Oliver

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2011, 07:15:03 PM »
Bill:
Thanks for the warning!  Scary stuff!  How expensive was the Dino?  If not too high, it might be worth doing just for peace of mind.

Edward Buker

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2011, 09:34:55 PM »
Bill brings up a very good point. These little spring clip Buss fuse holders that are on circuit boards can oxidize in a damp environment or fatigue and cause a loose contact. It may be worth tightening the clip by squeezing it togather a little bit and lightly spraying each end of the fuse with a little Corrosion X. Put it back in the clips and rotate it a bit to clear any oxidation and also coat the clip with the Corrosion X.

Kieth, you found the bad fuse so you get the credit for that one. If a fuse is not the right type (Slo Blow which typically has a filament winding built inside or Fast Blow which has a straight filament) or if it is not the proper rated amps then keep searching until you find one. You can typically get away with a fast blow or slow blow in place of each other temporarily and then order the right one. If you are blowing fuses be sure and check the ohms of the heating element. That draws the most current and if the ohms are on the low side I would see if a new one was near nominal spec and if so replace it.

Later Ed

Bill Sprague

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2011, 03:39:59 PM »
Quote from: Keith Oliver
Bill:
Thanks for the warning!  Scary stuff!  How expensive was the Dino?  If not too high, it might be worth doing just for peace of mind.
Memory suggests I paid about $300 that included fast shipping.  

Keith Oliver

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2011, 08:10:07 PM »
Well, two weeks have gone by since I thought the fridge was fixed.  In that time, we were on the road for the first 4 days, and when plugged in at one overnight spot, and the first day after arriving at our rental site, it worked fine.  After that, it has failed to cool while on AC for most of the time.  It works fine on Propane, so that is where I have been leaving it.  

Gerald suggested a bad AC heating element.  I have reviewed the service manual, but don't see how I can determine whether the AC heating element is good or bad.

I also tried to display the codes, but when I press "temp" and "Mode" together, I don't get any code display.  I am just about ready to pay a tech to come out, but I don't know if there are any techs that know any more than I now do, so I am afraid the approach is likely to be to throw money and parts at it until something works.  I really want to go in with better knowledge.  

Any ideas?

Edward Buker

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2011, 06:43:49 AM »
Kieth,

Several posts up I provided the ohms for a good AC element. You should be able to pull the plugs/connectors from the board and measure the heating element with an ohmmeter. 48ohm nominal 38 to 53 ohm window for a good one. If I measured under 40 I would probably change it due to the blowing of the fuse. If you measure a heating element and it is under an ohm in value that is the DC heating element. The AC one is the one you are after. If the element is good I would start looking into changing the board given there are not a lot of other components involved here.

Later Ed
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 05:51:26 AM by 910 »

Keith Oliver

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2011, 02:11:00 AM »
Ed;

Thanks again.  I checked the heating units, there are two of them on this unit.  One measured 60 Ohms, the  other, 14 Ohms.  So one bad one is enough to knock out the AC cooling.  I called a local RV Tech, he came out with a new heater, but couldn't get the old ones out, as they are rusted into the pipes that attach them to the side of the cooling unit.  His advice, trash it and put in a new cooling unit.  I had to agree, that the chances of getting the heaters off without destroying the cooling unit look to be nil, so I now have a new unit on order from David Force, www.RVCoolingunit.com.  My fridge still works just fine on Propane, so this shouldn't have much effect on our use of the Beaver.

Edward Buker

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2011, 06:05:35 AM »
Kieth,

The Amish units are supposed to be good units, much thicker.They take pride in their work and Norcold could learn a thing or two from them. Given all the fires and evidence of rust, this unit was probably overdue for change. Most people wait until they fail and put the coach at risk. Hopefully with the cooling unit and the new heater you will have success. You still may have a board issue but hopefully not. Keep us posted.

Later Ed

Keith Oliver

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Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2011, 05:20:50 PM »
Ed:
Thanks.  I looked at the possibility of swapping out the cooling unit myself, but since it is sooo important to Janet to have a continuously working fridge, I will pass that opportunity and get the "Mobile RV Tech" to do it.  He promises in and out in 4 hours.  I'll let you know how it looks when I see it.  Website pix never tell the whole story.

Keith Oliver

  • Guest
Re: Norcold reports "no AC"
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2011, 03:30:08 AM »
Just to conclude this thread:  On Nov 11, the RV Tech installed our new "Amish" cooling unit in our Norcold 1200.  It took him and his helper a little under 4 hrs, and was done, cleaned up and operational.  SInce then, it has run flawlessly until we shut it down when we parked the Beaver in storage for the next couple of months.  The setting required to get proper fridge temp is now the lowest, while on the old ulit (before its failure) it required a higher setting.
While it was out, I inspected the bits that would remain, which weren't many.  The propane burner is one, and it looked new.  the icemaker controls and piping had been a problem early on, so I had already replaced the bits  that needed it.  Everything else looks like new.
The new cooling unit is powder coated white, so looks excellent.  The old unit was rusted and ready to fail.  The heating elements were also rusted, and couldn't be separated from the cooling unit, hence the total replacement.  It was time.
I didn't hang around to see what was involved in the swap, but whenever I did look in on progress, it seemed to be just a staitforward re/re, without any tricky parts.
the old unit was 13 yrs old.  I hope to get at least that out of the new one.  Since it looks a lot more robust than the original, should be the last time we have to visit this issue.