Immediate starter engagement

[Brian Miller]

All,
I’m having an ignition/ starter ( stays engaged )issue with my 2000 Beaver Patriot.  Turned the ignition key to the first position and the starter immediately engaged.  Just had the starter replaced because the previous starter had immediate engagement and overheated and seized. I thought it was a solenoid issue that caused the issue however it’s the same issue with the new starter.
Need some ideas…

Thank you
Brian

[Joel Ashley]

I had an issue with a starter that wouldn’t disengage on our Pace Arrow.  After several ruined starters, tows, and clueless repairmen, I dug in myself and discovered an old GM service bulletin about a bad solenoid from the factory.  Turns out it was hidden behind and mounted to a vertical steel angle iron support of the doghouse.  I was lucky to find it barely with my fingers (when all else fails, follow/feel the wires).  It was a secondary solenoid, not the main starter one, which added perplexion.

It could be you have a similar situation, with a solenoid between the dash ignition and starter that has points burned together or with no gap left.  Or perhaps a bad relay.  It no doubt is the cause of the overheating and failure of your last starter, and if not replaced will keep ruining starters.  Others here may have familiarity with your coach model and can assist, and there may be a wiring diagram “book” for it available in the Club’s Coach Assist section, although it may not be detailed enough to show everything you need.

Joel

[Eric Maclean Co-Admin]

Brian
In your original post you don't give the year or model and engine size of your coach which will make it difficult for anyone to give you an accurate description of where to look .
But with that said if we are talking about a Beaver Patriot your should find a primary start solenoid mounted at the left rear of the battery bay near the frame rail above the air tanks.
That solenoid is the primary start solenoid which sends the signal to the secondary solenoid mounted on the starter if it is stuck it will cause your problem.

Eric

[Brian Miller]

Original post stated 2000 Beaver Patriot.
I did forget cat 3126
Thank you

[Eric Maclean Co-Admin]

Brian
Many of us here carry a spare ignition solenoid which is a common fault item in the forward electrical bay.
That ignition solenoid is also an isolated ground solenoid meaning the internal coil is not grounded to the case of the solenoid
Although the ignition solenoid is rated for continuous duty and is capable of 85 amps making it a little over kill for the starter primary or trigger solenoid it is configured the same way and will work well in that roll.

Also Cole Hersey makes the same continuous duty solenoid in a 200 amp rating with silver internal contacts making it more durable which is a very good alternative for the ignition solenoid in the forward electrical bay.

So you can see if you can only carry one spare that is the one you want

Eric

https://www.colehersee.com.au/product/spst-12v-85a-continuous-duty-solenoid/

[Brian Miller]

Eric,
I’ve been diligently working to resolve my 2000 Beaver Patriot, cat 3126 start issue.
Replaced starter after the starter wouldn’t disengage. Replaced solenoid in electrical bay. Additionally, replaced solenoid adjacent to battery compartment.
Now, all we have is just a click as the ignition switch is turned to the start position.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

[Frank Bergamo]

Where is the click coming from when you turn the key? The starter, ignition solenoid, key switch???

[Joel Ashley]

After all the work, make sure your chassis batteries are still fully charged, and/or use the boost switch on the dash to have the house set assist.

[Frank Bergamo]

Also, while you are at it, make sure all battery cables are clean and tight!

[Eric Maclean Co-Admin]

Brian
Check at the primary start / trigger solenoid ( the one in the back of the battery bay ) to see if you are getting a start signal headed to the solenoid on the starter.
You may want to use a jumper wire to bridge between the two larger connections on that primary /trigger solenoid to verify whether or not the new starter will crank
In order for the starter to operate the transmission control module ( TCM) must be active and showing the transmission in neutral to allow a start trigger signal to pass ,that signal is the sent to the rear run control switch where it is passed on to the start trigger solenoid . The start trigger solenoid is used as a relay to operate the starter solenoid.
The trigger solenoid will have two larger terminals one of these will be hot all the time with battery voltage , and the other large terminal will be connected directly to the starter solenoid to activate the starter. By jumping across these two large terminals the starter should operate if it doesn't you have a wiring issue or a faulty starter.
If on the other hand it does operate the starter by connecting the two larger terminals it would indicate the trigger solenoid is not doing its job .
The trigger solenoid is an isolated ground solenoid meaning the coil that operates it is isolated from the case or internal connections,
This type of solenoid has two smaller terminals one of which must be connected to a good ground and the other is the trigger wire.
If the solenoid does not operate check the two terminals to see if you are getting a good ground on one and a trigger voltage on the other when the key is turned to the start position.
The trigger signal for that solenoid comes from the rear run switch ( which can sometimes be problematic)

How ever if as you state you get an audible click at the trigger solenoid and the starter does not operate.
First check that you have 12 volts at one of the trigger solenoid larger connections if so try to jump a cross those two large terminals if it doesn't crank.
Check your wiring at the starter it is possible you have inadvertently connected one or more of the smaller ground or feed wires to the wrong terminal on the back of the starter when you replaced it.

On the other hand if your audible click is at the starter it is possible the starter solenoid/ pinion depth is set too deep and not allowing the starter solenoid to complete the starter circuit. ( Bad starter rebuild )

Page 18 of the 1996 Patriot wiring diagram in the coach assist library shows the starter wiring circuit to help you understand the power path .

Eric

[Fred Brooks]

   Here is a picture of the Trigger Solenoid on the back of the battery box. I am not sure why Beaver decided to hide this solenoid in such a place that is so hard to find. Please follow Eric's diagnosis as it covers all the details to evaluate your issue. Fred